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bronzino
02-05-2011, 12:23 PM
ADMIN NOTE: If you know of other TTB threads about this individual - good as well as bad - especially posted since 2011 - please PM Mary (http://www.modelhorseblab.com/forums/private.php?do=newpm&u=600) with a thread link, and this post/thread will be updated to include them. Thank you.
***********************************


We have information to relate regarding these four identities. I say "identities" because the real name is not necessarily known.

I would encourage Blabbers who remember these issues to post links to any relevant threads. The oohs and ahhs and kvetching, please leave out.

:feedtroll

================================================== ==

SUMMARY of the details below the lower line
I encourage also reading the details carefully and with full attention. They will give a much better picture needed by an informed hobbyist. A number of hobbyists contributed the information in this post. Much of the info is not new, but as each person only had part of the picture, it wasn't until it all came together that it was apparent what was going on.

The basic hobby complaint has been sales and trades where this individual has collected an item or money but not sent the item they were due to send. The information here is only what has been reported on Blab and/or MHHR, but there could be more we are not aware of.

All 4 of the names below have used the same transactions address in Levittown, NY 11756, house number 105.
All Blab id's except bayba have been used from the same computer.

Jennifer Davis (bayba) - 2007 had 5+ complaints of collecting money and not shipping the goods

Michelle McGrath Davis (mcgruff) - 2008-2010 at least 5 international complaints; restitution is underway to those who reported on Blab but there are possibly more on MHHR

Jennylee Guzzi (jennylee) aka Jenny - 2010 complaints, 3 so far

Jules Charon (julescharon) - 1 complaint we know of - has used same house address and computer as the above identites


The conclusion many have reached is that one person is using these identities to defraud hobbyists. It appears that when complaints have reduced the credibility of one identity, a new one steps forward to continue the same activity. Since Jennifer Davis has an arrest under that name it could be assumed she is the real identity.

In 2007 Jennifer Davis was arrested and charged with embezzling $49,000 from her employer. We do not know what more came of these charges. The employer's address was used for some hobby transactions, showing this is the same Jennifer Davis.

All 4 identities occasionally become involved with each other's trades to purportedly resolve complaints, and all have claimed family relationships. The 4th, julescharon, has recently become active and complained about being scammed by jennylee, although the two have used the same house address and have operated from one computer. A note that some of these names also have green lights for good trades, and apparently all have been friendly and gained the trust of other hobbyists.

Photos of each have been found on the internet. The photos have a passing resemblance but it is not clear if they are of the same person or different people. It is possible that one person is using the identities of real people, with or without their knowledge. It is possible one person posted photos of herself under different names.

Please read the details below with full attention. It is important to understanding how this all happened.


================================================== ==

JENNIFER DAVIS

In 2004, Jennifer Davis joined Blab under username bayba.

In 2006, she entered into a trade deal with Amber Crisafulli for a drawing. They agreed on the following trade: (1) 8x10 graphite portrait of her boyfriend Dave's German Shepherd mix "Bud" plus (1) 5x7 graphite portrait of her cat "Icarus" (http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n219/roanypony11/Fuzzy%20kids/ick.jpg) in exchange for her PS Arabian "Ziggy". The address supplied to Amber was Jennifer Davis c/o Traditional Air Conditioning, in Hicksville NY. The police blotter published in the Hofstra Chronicle apparently reported the following for March 20, 2007:


Hicksville
-On March 20, Jennifer Davis, 33, of Levittown was arrested for grand larceny and falsifying business records. Between December 2003 and February 2007, while employed as a bookkeeper/office manager for Trade Air Conditioning, Davis made unauthorized purchases in excess of $49,000 against a company credit card and forged company checks.
(http://www.hofstrachronicle.com/2.1156/nassau-county-police-blotter-1.55562)Please note that being arrested for something does not mean the person is guilty or convicted. A person is innocent until proven guilty. It is possible that Jennifer was completely cleared of these charges, for all we know. Dealing with these issues may, however, perhaps explain why at some point in 2007, Jennifer disappeared from Blab and the hobby, for the most part. She apparently left some folks in her wake, with pending deals. Some examples:

March 2007 - Kathleen Burge missing a medallion (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MHHR/message/36675)
March 2007 - Jessica Reske looking for a resin (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MHHR/message/36675)
May 2007 - Deborah Ash also raised a complaint about non-delivery of a horse (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MHHR/message/38783)
May 2007 - Sue Peet complains about not getting a highly-sought-after Rose resin (Indy). (http://www.modelhorseblab.com/forums/showthread.php?52279)

Sue says in her Blab post that Jennifer Davis is in Levittown, NY. In her response to Jessica, Jennifer tells us that her SO's name is "Dave." (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MHHR/message/36669) From one WOYM thread there is an indication that the husband/so's last name is "Miller." In that same thread, we learn that she's a boat owner (http://www.modelhorseblab.com/forums/showthread.php?41566-**WARNING**-F-Rated-Randomly-Milling%21-PART-2&p=540974&highlight=boat#post540974). There are posts in WOYM indicating she was telling people she had money troubles in addition to health issues. These issues may have been resolved eventually, but you'll recall people were worried about her (http://www.modelhorseblab.com/forums/showthread.php?50715) and complaining about a lack of response (http://www.modelhorseblab.com/forums/showthread.php?52074). Apparently she was still reading Blab and visible on "Who's Online," but ignoring emails and PMs.

In August, 2007, hobbyist Julie Sparrey (of the UK?) complains she has not received goods from Jennifer Davis (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MHHR/message/40694). At the same time, the "sister" of Jennifer Davis saves the day by delivering a resin promised by Jennifer to Deborah Ash. (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MHHR/message/40906) The "sister" was identified by Julie Sparrey as "Laura." (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MHHR/message/40878)

Here's what might be a picture of her and Dave (bbpic.jpg) (http://www.modelhorseblab.com/forums/image.php?u=424&type=profile&dateline=1159389390).

MICHELLE (MICHELE?) MCGRATH DAVIS

The first time we hear about Michelle McGrath-Davis is right after Jennifer's disappearance. In August, 2007, someone tries to check MMD's references on MHHR. (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MHHR/message/40722) She does not get a response the first time. I'm not even sure that person got a response the second time. Just two months later, Kayla Wiseman (who I have never heard of) is ready to call the police on MMD for not delivering yet another Indy resin (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MHHR/message/42673).

In 2008, Michelle joined Blab under username "mcgruff." At some time in March, 2009, we have Bobbie Mosimann (who is a real, honest to goodness hobbyist) ready to sound the alarm because Michelle isn't delivering a medallion (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MHHR/message/56674). At that point, Bobbie is asserting an MMD/JD connection (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MHHR/message/56674). And Bobbie is rip-roaring mad about it.

In March, 2010, Nina Kratritzke of Germany is looking for Michelle. Nina is looking for an address and phone number from Michelle for someone else. (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MHHR/message/61305)

In March, 2010, Michelle gets various TTB complaints for allegedly selling the same highly-sought after Rose resin to three different international buyers (Uschi Huppmann, Tanja Nagel et al), and not delivering. She sold a horse to Heather Irvine in the UK and Mel Boynes in Australia, same issues, although both individuals eventually got some relief. Relevant threads here:

http://www.modelhorseblab.com/forums...ead.php?102503 (http://www.modelhorseblab.com/forums/showthread.php?102503)
http://www.modelhorseblab.com/forums...ead.php?105580 (http://www.modelhorseblab.com/forums/showthread.php?105580)

Just as Jennifer had prior to her disappearance, MMD stated there are health issues. I noted in one of those threads that MMD had a penchant for recycling names (http://www.modelhorseblab.com/forums/showthread.php?105580-Frauded-by-Michelle-Mc-Grath-Davis&p=1412164&viewfull=1#post1412164). There's a real Jane Schneider in the hobby (in CO) (http://www.modelhorseblab.com/forums/showthread.php?102503), and MMD blamed yet another "Jane Schneider" (in CA) for losing her resins (http://www.modelhorseblab.com/forums/showthread.php?102503-Michelle-McGrath-Davis&p=1350394&viewfull=1#post1350394), swearing up and down that she really did have three Lone Star resins. There's a real Kim Smith in the hobby, in FL, and MMD had payments going out with the name "Kim Smith" attached (http://www.modelhorseblab.com/forums/showthread.php?105580&p=1398741&viewfull=1#post1398741) (also MHHR post (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MHHR/message/67609)). So did Jennifer Davis (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MHHR/message/67600).

In the course of those threads and some posts on MHHR, you'll find various aliases attributed to MMD and JD. I did some research and found that MMD had admitted to having a relationship with JD through MMD's husband previously. I noted that MMD described the nature of that relationship three contradictory ways (http://www.modelhorseblab.com/forums/showthread.php?105580-Frauded-by-Michelle-Mc-Grath-Davis&p=1399820&highlight=#post1399820). As that post notes, Jennifer Davis' middle name was Michelle, and Michelle was selling horses on consignment for Jennifer at some point. My message making these points got cross-posted to MHHR by another member here, who was trying to be helpful. After my messages were published, I don't think we heard from MMD again.

MMD supplied to Heather Irvine an address for Farmingdale, New York. MMD supplied to Charlotte Hill the address in Levittown, NY.

PhotoBucket account associated with Michelle/Michele, per Heather I. (http://s187.photobucket.com/home/michelemcgrath) Note there's a photo in there identified as "Mish." Hard to say if that's for real.

JENNYLEE GUZZI

In July, 2010, Michelle Brown tells us she's getting yanked about by a person named JennyLee Guzzi. In that thread, we hear from Amanda Dionne that she dealt with a JennyLee "Miller," the surname of Jennifer Davis' husband/SO (http://www.modelhorseblab.com/forums/showthread.php?107481-well-looks-like-I-was-scammed-for-the-1st-time....&p=1511262#post1511262). Kristen Cermele also notes that JennyLee Guzzi has no hesitation about condemning an alleged con artist on MHHR, but blithely ignores the complaints against herself that are already posted there (http://www.modelhorseblab.com/forums/showthread.php?107481-well-looks-like-I-was-scammed-for-the-1st-time....&p=1543674&viewfull=1#post1543674).

It was also related to us in that thread by Heather I. that JennyLee Guzzi (who joined Blab 11/10) is the "sister in law" of Michele McGrath Davis. In the emails Heather copied to the forum, JG is talking real tough about MMD, she's going to kick her ass into shape (http://www.modelhorseblab.com/forums/showthread.php?107481-well-looks-like-I-was-scammed-for-the-1st-time....&p=1546629&viewfull=1#post1546629). In the meantime, Jacquie Fernandez relates that the address for JennyLee Guzzi is Levittown, NY 11756, house number 105 (a Long Island address). Upon searching the address given to us for Guzzi, I find the following snapshot from Google. Don't click the EXE file in the linked page. The relevance is that Google snapshotted this information from one of the links (probably the CSV file):


"Owner","New","Jennifer Davis","Dave","105 Spring Lane","Levittown","NY","11756","516-965-0017","jennifer@jcryanebco.com","ElectronicNewslet ters","","1995","36","362","Go Deep","","","Yes","","","Hanse Point Marina","","Freeport, NY" (http://www.silvertonclub.com/graphics/index.php?action=downloadfile&filename=members2.csv&directory=MembershipApplication/Members&PHPSESSID=neolal94op49hkbjba1df87s36)The file is is a list of "boat" owners. From the email address, we find that Ms. Davis works for a company (http://www.jcryanebco.com/contact1.html) on Long Island, NY in Farmingdale, New York. Please note that as of 02/06/11, her name is still on the company's site as a "contract administrative assistant."

Apparently "Jennifer Davis" was into real horses; she had an english saddle for sale that someone on Blab referenced long ago (http://www.modelhorseblab.com/forums/showthread.php?48408-thinking-about-purchasing-an-english-saddle&p=608133&highlight=davis#post608133). There is someone alleged to be a professional huntseat horsewoman in the Long Island area with the name "Jenny Guzzi[/URL]." Whether the name "Guzzi" is another recycled one, is anybody's guess - but people should certainly not guess and bother the real Ms. Guzzi.

Still another individual sends me copies of emails where JennyLee Guzzi is allegedly trying to take a non-American buyer for a ride.

Added: MHHR complaint posted Feb. 2, 2010 (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MHHR/message/73198) - Hobbyist is frustrated that the Alpine bought from Jennylee hasn't been shipped, and apparently another hobbyist is also waiting on an Alpine from Jennylee. A husband "Tony" is communicating that Jennylee is sick but the model will be shipped soon. A registered letter to Jennylee was returned as refused. Last names that also came up with the transaction are Guzman, Mithchell, Mitchell.


JULES CHARON

Suddenly, on January 24, 2011, Jules Charon (member since Feb 05) pops up in Michelle Brown's thread, stating that she sent money to Guzzi for a horse, much gnashing of teeth over not having checked MHHR or Blab for references (http://www.modelhorseblab.com/forums/showthread.php?107481-well-looks-like-I-was-scammed-for-the-1st-time....&p=1546629&viewfull=1#post1546629). Last night, Jules posts that she got from Ms. Guzzi various unwanted items including a horse that she cloyingly mentions is purple. (http://www.modelhorseblab.com/forums/showthread.php?107481-well-looks-like-I-was-scammed-for-the-1st-time....&p=1555236&viewfull=1#post1555236) That was perhaps designed to make us all look for a thread about one of PitBullMom's horses, because of course PBM is famous for her purple ponies and she used to post about them on here frequently. John Keeling does the expected search, and helpfully points out that Jennifer Davis got a PBM horse (http://www.modelhorseblab.com/forums/showthread.php?107481-well-looks-like-I-was-scammed-for-the-1st-time....&p=1555319&viewfull=1#post1555319) (and Susan confirms as much today). So now we are like "ahhh so JennyLee Guzzi *is* Jennifer Davis." Just like we are supposed to. :)

Right on cue, on February 4, 2011, per Natalie Kilpatrick, JC posts this ad on MH$P (http://www.modelhorseblab.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=25267&d=1297001634), helpfully directing people who have complaints about JennyLee Guzzi to JC. Because she'll help you get goods you're owed from her. She's got a cousin in upstate New York that will go and collect goods for you.

Suddenly my BS-meter goes off. I started to question Jules about where she lived (http://www.modelhorseblab.com/forums/showthread.php?107481-well-looks-like-I-was-scammed-for-the-1st-time....&p=1555393&viewfull=1#post1555393), and got some answers I didn't like (she's allegedly in TX). I took the necessary steps to cut JD/MMD/JG/JC's access, although it is still possible they are able to read. John took my suspicions and ran with them, and found there's a connection between JD and JC going back to 2004 (see his post). He finds that Jules has stated she's in Long Island right now, not TX. He finds it remarkable that Jules complains in one thread about needing to sell horses, and then suddenly she has several JD items she received. Jennifer Davis surely couldn't sell them. Another member, seeing where we are going with this, pointed out that Jules apparently couldn't make up her mind about whether she'd paid JennyLee Guzzi using a money order (http://www.modelhorseblab.com/forums/showthread.php?107481-well-looks-like-I-was-scammed-for-the-1st-time....&p=1555365&viewfull=1#post1555365) or Paypal (http://www.modelhorseblab.com/forums/showthread.php?107481-well-looks-like-I-was-scammed-for-the-1st-time....&p=1545120&viewfull=1#post1545120). Also note the Freudian slip "I She (http://www.modelhorseblab.com/forums/showthread.php?107481-well-looks-like-I-was-scammed-for-the-1st-time....&p=1555365&viewfull=1#post1555365)."

This morning, I got an answer to a query I made last night: Per Jackie Hasser, Jules Charon was having material delivered to the Levittown NY address. Thus, that same address has been used by JD/MMD/JG/JC. Both MMD and JC were apparently using the same address as Jennifer Davis' work address in Farmingdale, NY.

Of less importance but still interesting: Several years ago, one of the showholders in my area got into a jam because she wasn't shipping her SR from her show promptly. People were really hot about it, and there were at least half a dozen people complaining about it on MHHR and our regional list. Suddenly out of nowhere pops up a complaint from Julie Charon on MHHR, upset that she didn't get her SR. Renee DeVore was correctly suspicious. Renee contacted the showholder and advised that the showholder said that "Julie Charon" had never ordered anything from that showholder (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MHHR/message/15582). When Renee raised it, Julie Charon suddenly had a maiden name that she'd used to order the SR (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MHHR/message/15608). All along, aliases have been explained away through marriage, so that response now seems somewhat in keeping with the norm.

I am told by another eagle-eyed hobbyist that Ms. Charon's MH$P ads that had the Jennifer Davis PBM horse on it - they're gone. There are other horses up now.

UPDATE

Tuesday, March 8, 2011, Berit Anderson and Randi Brazil have reported that they were "stung" by an individual calling herself Jordana Michael, with a PO Box in Levittown NY. The same PO Box used by Jules Charon, per Jackie Hasser. I will post more details when I have more time.

THE UPSHOT

Jenn Davis, Michelle McGrath Davis, JennyLee Guzzi, Jules Charon and Jordana Michael have some important facts in common. There are probably more related identities, and some may still be on Blab. If you're buying something, ask for your seller's address. Check here, check MHHR, check NAMHSA show results (this person does not live show), check the NAMHSA regional lists. If nobody's ever met your seller in person, then maybe you don't send her $300, okay?

john
02-05-2011, 12:32 PM
Those of you who know me, also know I generally like to not post very much publicly and stay out of controvertial situations. However, in the name of making sure nobody else gets burned, I think some information needs to be shared. So I'm going to post it here, and let everyone draw their own conclusions, and give those involved a chance to explain their side of things too. This could all be circumstantial, however when we're talking about items that potentially cost hundreds of dollars, it never hurts to be thorough.

[This portion edited by bronzino/liz: The information that was here we'll cover separately - for now the links john posts below are probably most valuable. I am also cleaning up his post since the "closed" nature of the original thread made it difficult for him to quote various threads properly].

What I found [regarding a possible relationship between Jules Charon and Jennifer Davis]:

I was bored last night (by-product of being snowed in), looked Jules Charon up on MHHR, and found this MHHR thread (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MHHR/message/12289). For those of you who aren't MHHR members, in November 2004 Jen Danza reported to MHHR that someone named Jules Charon was fraudulently trying to sell an El Cid resin that was known to belong to Jennifer Davis. There is also a reply there from Jennifer Davis verifying that she still owned the El Cid in question, and had contacted this Jules person to tell her as much. If you search MHHR further, the MH$P ad in question was quickly taken down.

I then got really curious and here I found this (post #117) [regarding Jules Charon's location]:





Wait a second, Jules. What state are you in? Do you yourself have any relationship to Jennifer, JennyLee or Michelle? No - I'm in Texas. Lived in NY but a long time ago, like nearly 17 years.
I thought I dealt with a jennifer Davis when i first got in the hobby, but it may have been a Jean Davis.

But here (http://www.modelhorseblab.com/forums/showthread.php?115005-I-feel-so-alone...&p=1549065&highlight=#post1549065) I found this (post #32):


I lived on LI since I as a kid, then moved (living now in TX), but stil have a house on LI and I'm going to be back there for at least 8 months while I open up a new branch of our company.
It looks like I'll be back within about 3 weeks, provided our office location purchase goes smoothly!....I'd love to meet up! I'll PM you. :)

I found references to a need for $$ and quick sale of models here (http://www.modelhorseblab.com/forums/showthread.php?114619-Color...but-not-the-mold&p=1551639&highlight=#post1551639) (post #18) and here (http://www.modelhorseblab.com/forums/showthread.php?114940-Artists-who-draw-Commissions&p=1551626&highlight=#post1551626) (post #22) [and suddenly Jules Charon comes into possession of some models previously identified with Jennifer Davis]. I also noticed an inconsistency [between these two posts regarding the $$ value of the models allegedly sent by JennyLee Guzzi to Jules Charon, underscore and bold mine]:


Well, great. I ddin't even think to look her up on here, it just came up on my 'unread posts'.
I've sent her [B]$237, and I'm quite afraid I'm in the same boat. No communication for about a month. This is the first time I feel like I'm maybe being taken advantage of, and I'm really just shocked. The sucker in me just thought that maybe she's busy, or having some difficulties, or whatever.
People who take hard earned money and then disappear can suck it. What can I do? :( :( :(


Exactly. Flabbergasted and disgusted, really. I 'ordered' the Glossy Blue Roan Nokota. I got a deco CM'd Nokota (he's purple!?) two new-looking Breyer OF classics, a fugly Stone trotting drafter and some 'home grown' medallions. Unless those OF's are worth a minimum of $200 each, at least, then there is no way this box of crap is even comparable to the money I spent. Hence my red light.

Part of me is thinking cut my losses, and sell this shizz....that she never even had that glosssy Nokota, but I really cannot afford to lose that kind of money right now.

And finally I found a reference to a horse named "Monkey" here (http://www.modelhorseblab.com/forums/showthread.php?112219-A-horse-2-dogs-the-ER-and-an-idiot-with-a-gun.) (remember, Jennifer Davis's email addy and Webshots ID was "twomonkeys"). [I remember "twobadmonkeys" from Haynet (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Haynet/message/105683)].

Again, all of this may indeed be circumstantial. However, I think it needs explaining and people need a chance to draw their own conclusions about this mess. I've drawn my own (pending further developments) but I won't speculate here.

Mary
02-05-2011, 09:02 PM
Note from me :)

I think readers will be drawing the obvious conclusions about what is going on with this individual from the posts above. I would like to put this out for consideration. Blab and MHHR both show complaints on Michelle McGrath Davis going back years. Various hobbyists have had the same address given by Michelle, Jennifer Davis and Jennylee Guzzi. And yet ... still this individual is able to arrange one transaction after the other during this long period of time.

How? Quite frankly, without the help of the victims this would have been stopped long ago. No victim intentionally assisted their own scamming or the next victim's. People who don't think of scamming others themselves often can't anticipate what a scammer may do. But to make these transactions happen this individual needs the victims to fail to do a number of things ...



check references - Blab AND MHHR (things reported on one aren't always reported on the other,) NAMHSA show results, NAMHSA regional lists
keep organized records once delays start happening (keep emails sorted out where they can be found, following up regularly, tracking dates, etc.)
publicly report problems
communicate with other victims and exchange information
work together with other victims to identify and even reporting to authorities
contact authorities and pursue a case
and ultimately --- believe that what is too good to be true is true, and then remain isolated once they feel they've been victimized --- believe that someone who sounds nice, is nice

No one is responsible for another person's bad choices. But by doing extra diligence, transacting carefully rather than quickly, we can often block those who would victimize us. The harder it is to make such scams work, the less attractive this hobby will be as a hunting ground.

A scammer's best friends are a victim's emotion, frustration, feelings of helplessness and even isolation with one's problem. A scammer's biggest threats are victims who are calm, purposeful, have fortitude and a willingness to connect with others in the same straits and file complaints with authorities. Scammers can be quite good at selecting who is most likely to get them what they want, and just as important, who is least likely to get them what they don't want - outing and prosecution.

A first step could be this thread. If your previous report hasn't been referenced in Liz's op, please post if you have been -


scammed by one of these identities
scammed by someone else with the same locations and identifiers

Please include details -


items and dates
and most especially, AMOUNTS YOU LOST or WOULD HAVE LOST had you not been ultimately refunded for a transaction that wasn't concluded

I think it will be helpful to come up with an idea of the scale of how much $ has been at risk. That could be helpful to a victim who wants to take their issues to the next level, legally.


This is a wonderful hobby and the vast majority of people in it are honest. The ability to have good transactions is an integral part of the enjoyment of the hobby. Anything we can do to preserve that integrity will keep the hobby strong and a positive in the lives of those who love it.


[Just a note - we may employ some special moderating to keep this thread on topic of
- any identities who can be associated with the common identifiers in the op;
- ways to avoid being scammed;
- what can be done if you appear to have had your money taken fraudulently;
- what constitutes a reportable offense;
- where, when and how to report to the authorities.

Keeping in mind that we don't know the real name of the op individual - so we'll go by the common links to establish that the same person has struck again. Definitely interested in learning of new names with the same identifiers.

Thanks for understanding, appreciate everyone's help.]

mariannas
02-05-2011, 09:25 PM
Just a note...and I'm not really sure it matters, but the lovely girl known as Myra was one of PBM's beloved dogs. :)

pitbullmom
02-05-2011, 09:32 PM
yes that was my dog...I have some things I can look up for you guys, I hope I saved them. This is just so disheartening. So unfortunate that people are still being misled! :somad

camaro88lover
02-05-2011, 09:39 PM
I can haz confusing? :lol Holy crow...

Eowin
02-05-2011, 09:44 PM
Question here...and believe me, I don't mean to step on toes or insult anyone. But on MHHR, John Keeling doesn't have a stellar reputation - but a Christmas tree lights....poison fruit and all that.

John, I don't mean to insult you, this is just what I saw in a search of MHHR, I didn't read through the posts, just look at the lights.

But then again, that's what most of us do, a search looking for lights. :dunno

This whole thread is going to take a LONG time to slog through to get a clue...when people are working transactions, it generally becomes fast and furious.

I'm still reading through the whole thing...but I had to post my gut instinct. I hope y'all don't mind.


Mod note: To discuss anyone else, please open another TTB thread and post the first person account with details. We've requested that before in other TTB threads. Thanks.

Laura G
02-05-2011, 09:47 PM
I can haz confusing? :lol Holy crow...

:yeahthat :wow

Mary
02-05-2011, 09:53 PM
Basically three of the identies in the thread title have used the same address in Levittown, NY, and one, Michelle McGrath Davis, used the same address as Jennifer Davis' work address in Farmingdale, NY. These communities are side-by-side on Long Island.

The same transaction patterns have been going on for several years under the 4 names identified here, as reported on MHHR and on Blab. Models have been sold but never shipped; trades have also never been shipped.

camaro88lover
02-05-2011, 09:55 PM
Basically three of the identies in the thread title have used the same address in Levittown, NY, and one, Michelle McGrath Davis, used the same address as Jennifer Davis' work address in Farmingdale, NY. These communities are side-by-side on Long Island.

The same transaction patterns have been going on for several years under the 4 names identified here, as reported on MHHR and on Blab. Models have been sold but never shipped; trades have also never been shipped.

Ahhh, the cliffnotes version - thanks Mary!

FriesianFury
02-05-2011, 10:01 PM
I can haz confusing? :lol Holy crow...

:uh :yeahthat

so help me get my brain around this, is julescharon is one of the MMD-JD-JG identity names? was just making up a story in those post she posted? Or am I miss reading what I just read?

RivnRo
02-05-2011, 10:03 PM
OK because I have no life aside from wreaking havoc on Blab all day long while bouncing baby on my knee..

Some tidbits I found today reading McGruff and JulesCharon's post histories.. no smoking guns..however..

Both make mention of having 2 dogs..yet no photos of either.. Odd.. all of us are deranged about posting about our pets. I know her Avatar is a dog.. but not on the threads where we ramble about their names and ages and idiotic things they do
Both make mention of an aprox. 5 year old OTTB.. Mcgruff in the sense of "I am getting" and Jules calls him the Monkey. Now, Mcgruff's was supposedly out of Storm Cat.. so adding to my lack of life I went looking on allbreed pedigree for all the male colts out of Storm cat for a three year span.. nothing with the monk or monkey in the name.. but was worth a try. There is also mention by both of another retired horse. No horse photos either
Jules complained about no money.. yet stated on a thread about Jenn Scott that she wanted to buy three of her resins.. but didn't because of the thread.. She also bought a new net book among other things - yet photos of her on her kanga shoes showed a nice neighbourhood... Don't get me wrong there could just be poor money management... but yeah..
She made a remarkable recovery from the incident with the horse and the dogs to be on those kanga shoes given she had broken two vertabrae and her wrist.. but made no further mention of the recovery or what happened with the money or where the horse and her. SHe also mentions she should move back to Virginia
She also asked just this week about having forgotten her password/email for MHSP.. Foolishly MY advice was to create a new account as Carrie was up to her eyeballs... would have been a convenient explanation for being "new" to MHSP in terms of a join date.. and erasing some past issues.

There was other little higgly piggly things.. by both that just seemed like exaggerations etc... that are common in on-line persona.. some confusion as to what she does for a living etc.

I am feeling at a loss.. as I quite liked Jules.. and looking back over some of our interactions I wonder that I didn't start to question things.. but that is hindsight for ya!

Jeannine
02-05-2011, 10:06 PM
I believed early on that JD/MMD/JG were all the same person, but I never considered that Julie could be another alias. Wow.

Mary
02-05-2011, 10:07 PM
:uh :yeahthat

so help me get my brain around this, is julescharon is one of the MMD-JD-JG identity names? was just making up a story in those post she posted? Or am I miss reading what I just read?Yes. She used the same address used by Jennifer Davis and Jennylee Guzzi.

Eowin
02-05-2011, 10:09 PM
WTF???

Vertebrae in her wrist???? Seriously??? Wow! I don't know what I'd do if I had a part of my spine in my hand.

Eowin
02-05-2011, 10:11 PM
Yes. She used the same address used by Jennifer Davis and Jennylee Guzzi.

Mary, I'm a former admin of another board...IP addresses...what do they say?

Wixom Aficionado
02-05-2011, 10:13 PM
WTF???

Vertebrae in her wrist???? Seriously??? Wow! I don't know what I'd do if I had a part of my spine in my hand.

You'd have one awesome hand with some serious backbone power!

Sorry...couldn't resist.

RivnRo
02-05-2011, 10:13 PM
WTF???

Vertebrae in her wrist???? Seriously??? Wow! I don't know what I'd do if I had a part of my spine in my hand.

I thought I made a typo.. but you made a readO Vertebrae and her wrist

Sweet Defense
02-05-2011, 10:14 PM
WTF???

Vertebrae in her wrist???? Seriously??? Wow! I don't know what I'd do if I had a part of my spine in my hand.

It says vertebrae and her wrist, as of November, 2010. L1 and L2, I think, if I recall right, so upper lower back.

Mary
02-05-2011, 10:15 PM
Mary, I'm a former admin of another board...IP addresses...what do they say?
The same ip (computer) created the Blab id's
mcgruff (Michelle McGrath Davis)
jennylee (Jennylee Guzzi)
julescharon (Jules Charon)

Because Blab management had already connected dots between JD-MMD-JG via other means, it simply did not occur to me to do a search on the ip address. But we've done it now, obviously.
:hammer

Eowin
02-05-2011, 10:15 PM
I thought I made a typo.. but you made a readO Vertebrae and her wrist

Yuppers! I did! My apologies!

FriesianFury
02-05-2011, 10:18 PM
Yes. She used the same address used by Jennifer Davis and Jennylee Guzzi.

:wow thanks, I just wanted to make sure I was reading that right since it was so confusing for a sec

im really starting to hope I dont get any back lashing from anyone or anyone thinking I have something do with this mess besides helping the people that has lost there money, that this one person has made :uh

:lol I do have proof im Sara Gifford! I can post ID :P

Eowin
02-05-2011, 10:20 PM
The same ip (computer) created the Blab id's
mcgruff (Michelle McGrath Davis)
jennylee (Jennylee Guzzi)
julescharon (Jules Charon)

Because Blab management had already connected dots between JD-MMD-JG via other means, it simply did not occur to me to do a search on the ip address.
:hammer

I understand, I was a forum manager in a game that highlighted intel, and intrigue, that's why I watched IP addresses every day. ;)

IP addresses won't necessarily be identical, but you can get a good idea of what's going on by IP's.

john
02-05-2011, 10:20 PM
You are correct. :yes I have some tirekicker lights on MHHR. That is a fact and I admitted my wrongs in every one of those situations. This is precisely the reason I tend to keep quiet in situations such as this. But I stand by the things I found and I don't regret bringing it to light so hopefully nobody else will be taken for a ride by whomever this person (or people) is or are.


Question here...and believe me, I don't mean to step on toes or insult anyone. But on MHHR, John Keeling doesn't have a stellar reputation - but a Christmas tree lights....poison fruit and all that.

John, I don't mean to insult you, this is just what I saw in a search of MHHR, I didn't read through the posts, just look at the lights.

But then again, that's what most of us do, a search looking for lights. :dunno

This whole thread is going to take a LONG time to slog through to get a clue...when people are working transactions, it generally becomes fast and furious.

I'm still reading through the whole thing...but I had to post my gut instinct. I hope y'all don't mind.


Mod note: To discuss anyone else, please open another TTB thread and post the first person account with details. We've requested that before in other TTB threads. Thanks.


Mod note
Thanks for clarifying John.
Let's everyone forego any further remarks on transactions not related to the thread title. :)

Mary
02-05-2011, 10:22 PM
im really starting to hope I dont get any back lashing from anyone or anyone thinking I have something do with this mess besides helping the people that has lost there money, that this one person as made :uhNo way Sara. :) A lot of people were taken in. You weren't even necessarily one since you only dealt with one of the identities. It is only with your help that some of the victims are now better off than they were. :thumbsup

msbrown2468
02-05-2011, 10:28 PM
wow, this is REALLY amazing that you guys were able to put this all together....some serious detective work!

michele (shelly) brown

Two Fishies
02-05-2011, 10:31 PM
My mind...it is blown.

Thanks Mary, Liz, and John for bringing this to light.

Eowin
02-05-2011, 10:36 PM
[Mod note - off-topic name deleted, sorry Karrie, we're good on this]

Also Mary, can you absolutely nail down that those ID's were made from the same computer? If you can it could open a whole new realm for those seek legal recompense.

... here too

Mary
02-05-2011, 10:42 PM
[COLOR=navy]
Also Mary, can you absolutely nail down that those ID's were made from the same computer? If you can it could open a whole new realm for those seek legal recompense.

Yes, that is what I posted before, but to clarify: the 3 Blab names listed were created by the same computer, the same ip for all 3: mcgruff, jennylee, julescharon

Blab permits multiple usernames for one ip, as we have family members using the same computer and we do like everyone to have their own username. Blab requires different email addresses, is all.

RivnRo
02-05-2011, 10:44 PM
Sooo.. the question begs Mary.. only three? or could there be more?

Eowin
02-05-2011, 10:48 PM
Yes, that is what I posted before, but to clarify: the 3 Blab names listed were created by the same computer, the same ip for all 3: mcgruff, jennylee, julescharon

Blab permits multiple usernames for one ip, as we have family members using the same computer and we do like everyone to have their own username. Blab requires different email addresses, is all.

Hey, I didn't mean to cross lines on that one...my apologies!

You've got a hell of a lot more at your fingertips than I did when I was a manager. All I had was forum recording of the IP and then following up with WHOIS. I would seriously save this stuff and offer it if people who want to go to court. If you can time-stamp this stuff and give it the same IP...the story is done then and there!

tabletopstudios
02-05-2011, 10:57 PM
Sooo.. the question begs Mary.. only three? or could there be more?

Exactly--it sound like there are two known IPs associated with this mess (one for Bayba/JD and one for MMD/JG/JC). Can you see if there are any other members that were created by those two IPs? Bizarre and sad--thanks to all who pieced together the details and thanks for getting the warning out.

Kim Haymond

Andrew
02-05-2011, 10:59 PM
Uh, howdy. I'm Stacy's other half. Most of the other Region X folks, and a few others, know me.

Stacy had me reading this thread, and being the good little paranoia bug that I am, I started commenting. So Stacy suggested that I put some of my thoughts up here and let you all pick and dissect them.

I want to start with this - classic "villain" mistake: she didn't think everything through. I mean, seriously? Using the same stupid address for all of her names? I mean, brilliant, bravo job keeping track of all of them (seriously, that's some Bond-esque stuff) but it never occurred to her to get a PO box or something? Hello? McFly?

Secondly, and I hate to say it, bit this is going to start a witchhunt. So yes, be very careful when you're out there selling and buying horses, but remember that accusations are easy to make but hard to shake off. So really, this is a pre-call for sanity. Unless you have hard evidence, I wouldn't suggest calling anyone out.

A few quick other things - first off, I think FreisanFury who was selling off for one of the identities (MMD?) was doing it so that she could muddy the waters a little more, and make it easier for her to operate once more. Again, I hate to admit that it was pretty smart on her part.

You're also going to be digging up personas for years. I hate to say that, but it's true. These names were pretty long-reaching; you'll be researching for quite some time. It's probably also going to muddy up some model provenance too, unfortunately...

I'm really sad to see this happen to this hobby. It's a sad and terrible thing and it's horrible that people would take advantage of trusting folks. I'm an outside observer in this hobby most of the time, but I have made some good friends through it and I feel awful that it's happened. If there's anything that I, or Stacy can do to help, just let us know.

solticeart
02-05-2011, 10:59 PM
wow when you guys were first coming to find out that jules is the same person as all the others I was.. no way.. then I was surfing around blab and read the thread where Jules says she was thrown from her horse and injured.. and thought no way do you have a broken spine and are on the computer..I know.. I had some back problems years ago and had to have surgery because of it and I couldn't even walk let alone sit up on get on a computer..... thats serious pain... and a broken wrist yet she was typing? ..yea right..If I broke my wrist I doubt Id be on the computer the same week let alone the same day.. it was just a way too far fetched story for me to believe and then she also doesn't update anyone about anything... .. so after reading that I thought.. you know she could be lying.. on top of this she says shes pregnant too.??? after such a bad fall a month ago she broke her back and wrist, doesn't have to have any kind of surgery. which I really think if she did crack/break those vertebrae she would have to have something done if they had been cracked...... I wonder what her reasons are for such a story(s) is? .
Mary can she open a new account under another alias and read all this now? or is this in the free area?
its too bad about al this.. and the lengths some people will go to.. I know I will be more aware fomr now on..

Mary
02-05-2011, 11:00 PM
Sooo.. the question begs Mary.. only three? or could there be more?Absolutely, there could be more. We've banned the identified usernames so those usernames can't be used to read this, but as Liz says in the op, we still have to assume this individual is reading this thread. Even posting in it! I was taken by surprise to find the julescharon connection, obviously this identity was participating in the complaining about the jennylee identity - then we find both usernames were created from one computer. :zow

We've identified those names that had complaints & the common physical addresses given to people by the identities themselves, and also had the same ip in 3 cases. We don't have a way to know what other identities used by the same individual could be out there that haven't yet hit the radar such that we could link the associations. We also don't know what could be out there that is from the same individual, but isn't using these common identifiers - that is, different computer, different physical address.

So ... all we can suggest is that people take this as a signpost to check references and keep some skepticism in your hobby dealings. And as Liz says, if you can't find anyone in the hobby who is aware of a seller or trader, don't send your money or your model. :)

Landshark
02-05-2011, 11:04 PM
Wow. And I too really liked Jules and was feeling bad for her.... she also stated having an issue with someone else spanning 10 years now (not mentioning since it's not part of OP). And here I thought how sad she is having all these problems! I am flabbergasted this can (and would) happen in our hobby of all places. Seems sort of like a waste of time for the offender(s).

ETA - I had been corresponding w Jules via PM. Why has this feature been turned off?

DraytonWoods
02-05-2011, 11:07 PM
I want to start with this - classic "villain" mistake: she didn't think everything through. I mean, seriously? Using the same stupid address for all of her names? I mean, brilliant, bravo job keeping track of all of them (seriously, that's some Bond-esque stuff) but it never occurred to her to get a PO box or something? Hello? McFly?

Not to mention the same IP!! Amateur.

This really pisses me off. Really pisses me off that Sara got dragged into it at the worst possible time for her.

msbrown2468
02-05-2011, 11:08 PM
what does this refer to? i'm confused? how is freisanfury involved with this??? maybe there is a post elsewhere that would explain.

michele (shelly) brown




A few quick other things - first off, I think FreisanFury who was selling off for one of the identities (MMD?) was doing it so that she could muddy the waters a little more, and make it easier for her to operate once more. Again, I hate to admit that it was pretty smart on her part.

RivnRo
02-05-2011, 11:10 PM
what does this refer to? i'm confused? how is freisanfury involved with this??? maybe there is a post elsewhere that would explain.

michele (shelly) brown

Abridged.. Sara has been selling "michelle's" horses for her as her rep is ruined.. and Sending whatever she made to those "michelle" scammed.

Mary
02-05-2011, 11:12 PM
Exactly--it sound like there are two known IPs associated with this mess (one for Bayba/JD and one for MMD/JG/JC). Can you see if there are any other members that were created by those two IPs? Bizarre and sad--thanks to all who pieced together the details and thanks for getting the warning out.
Yep, a little slow off the mark as we were boresighted on running down the other more difficult trails, but we did search and that's all for the two ip's. Both have been blocked from future registrations. We also blocked them at a more general level that may catch some honest people from the same ip area. Hopefully those will email me and ask why they were blocked so I can let them in.



Secondly, and I hate to say it, bit this is going to start a witchhunt. So yes, be very careful when you're out there selling and buying horses, but remember that accusations are easy to make but hard to shake off. So really, this is a pre-call for sanity. Unless you have hard evidence, I wouldn't suggest calling anyone out.:yeahthat :agreed
Andrew is right. One of the greatest damages this person may do is to bring suspicion on other innocent people. Check references but please don't be quick to point fingers unless the evidence is solid and beyond argument.

The Blab mod team has been aware of more connections that we published for some time. We've been conservative about outing because every brick was not yet in place, and because we thought all the identities had been red/yellow-lighted somewhere, at some time. Then we realized that wasn't so. We decided that an informed hobby is the best prepared to make good decisions.



A few quick other things - first off, I think FreisanFury who was selling off for one of the identities (MMD?) was doing it so that she could muddy the waters a little more, and make it easier for her to operate once more. Again, I hate to admit that it was pretty smart on her part.Sara / FreisianFury hasn't done anything wrong, in my own opinion. She helped the international hobbyists when they had little chance of being able to help themselves from such a distance.

It is interesting that this individual, Jennifer Davis (Michelle McGrath Davis) for want of a more precise name, has from time to time made restitution when there were public complaints. I don't have all the links but not only through Sara. But clearly JD has kept herself in the game under the same names in several cases.

FriesianFury
02-05-2011, 11:14 PM
A few quick other things - first off, I think FreisanFury who was selling off for one of the identities (MMD?) was doing it so that she could muddy the waters a little more, and make it easier for her to operate once more. Again, I hate to admit that it was pretty smart on her part.



I was waiting for someone to say something like this. She has been doing this for YEARS, way before I was even in the hobby, heck she has gone through 3 names way before I helped!! I only stepped in the last few months so the water was already "muddy" way before a helpful hand came in, also another fact I had NO CLUE what so ever about all this new info, the only thing I knew that there was one person with one alias only later after I was helping did I come to find out there there was more then one alias. I also bet this would STILL be going on even if I never helped, since this seems to be a repeat pattern for this person. So dont go dragging me down saying I helping her out to keep doing what she is doing.

RivnRo
02-05-2011, 11:17 PM
CHILL guys..

He isn't dragging Sara down.. he is saying involving Sara was genious.. to try and clean up her mess on the coattails of someone with an excellent rep.. maybe just enough to get law out of it if people see she is doing SOMETHING

It's just his wording.. read it more slowly it will be more clear

Eowin
02-05-2011, 11:22 PM
Mary...please document Andrew's IP addy and log it.

I wish we could block it but the more he/she/it talks the more evidence.

As for anyone daring to impinge Sara's (Friesanfury) reputation, you have just perfectly demonstrated the definition of the word IGNORAMUS. Go ahead, look it up, I'll wait.

Mary
02-05-2011, 11:22 PM
CHILL guys..

He isn't dragging Sara down.. he is saying involving Sara was genious.. to try and clean up her mess on the coattails of someone with an excellent rep.. maybe just enough to get law out of it if people see she is doing SOMETHING

It's just his wording.. read it more slowly it will be more clearThat's my take as well.

When Liz gets back from her dinner (how was dinner, Liz? :grintongue) she will have more to say on this. But she has some good points that this individual is doing more than getting money and models under multiple identities. There is a big element of a game. Not changing addresses, registering from one computer, absolutely led breadcrumbs back to this conclusion that weren't necessary to someone who really wanted to avoid detection.

john
02-05-2011, 11:25 PM
I was waiting for someone to say something like this. She has been doing this for YEARS, way before I was even in the hobby, heck she has gone through 3 names way before I helped!! I only stepped in the last few months so the water was already "muddy" way before a helpful hand came in, also another fact I had NO CLUE what so ever about all this new info, the only thing I knew that there was one person with one alias only later after I was helping did I come to find out there there was more then one alias. I also bet this would STILL be going on even if I never helped, since this seems to be a repeat pattern for this person. So dont go dragging me down saying I helping her out to keep doing what she is doing.

Sara, I for one commend you for helping those folks get their funds back. Who knows when or if they would have ever seen any type of recompense, had it not been for your intervention and help. Those buyers were geographically unable to do very much other than hope for a miracle, and you gave it to them.

RivnRo
02-05-2011, 11:26 PM
Mary...please document Andrew's IP addy and log it.

I wish we could block it but the more he/she/it talks the more evidence.

As for anyone daring to impinge Sara's (Friesanfury) reputation, you have just perfectly demonstrated the definition of the word IGNORAMUS. Go ahead, look it up, I'll wait.

Andrew is Stacy's SO.. these' no funny stuff there....

Eowin
02-05-2011, 11:29 PM
Andrew is Stacy's SO.. these' no funny stuff there....

This is a paste: A few quick other things - first off, I think FreisanFury who was selling off for one of the identities (MMD?) was doing it so that she could muddy the waters a little more,

Sorry Riv but this is NOT a mis-read!

Landshark
02-05-2011, 11:31 PM
Karrie - I just think Andrew did not word it correctly. I don't think he meant anything against FriesianFury.

msbrown2468
02-05-2011, 11:31 PM
so, for all the people who bought horses and got nothing in return, can something legal really be done? can this person/people be arrested? stealing is stealing, right? and this makes me wonder....[mod edit - 3rd time to say do not bring other unrelated redlights into this thread] another thing...i wonder why "jennylee" refunded my money when she wasn't able to deliver the horse i had paid for?

michele (shelly) brown

mumtaz
02-05-2011, 11:32 PM
Yes, I read Andrew's comment the way RivnRo did. Both he and Sara are known in person to people on Blab and in the hobby. Let's not look for trouble where there isn't any.

Eowin
02-05-2011, 11:32 PM
Karrie - I just think Andrew did not word it correctly. I don't think he meant anything against FriesianFury.

Well, I hope not..because Sara has been nothing but great. If he mucks with her, he's gotta go thru me! Understood?

Stacy
02-05-2011, 11:34 PM
Yeah, uh gals, Andrew's real, he was sitting next to me reading and commenting so I encouraged him to log on and put his comments to the keys so to speak, I thought he had a lot of good points to make and I thought his perspective would be appreciated. What I don't appreciate is him getting dragged through the mud which is basically what he said was going to happen with the "Witch hunt" that seems to take place after events like this. So I guess I'll just step out of this thread too, no point since I'm probably just another set of puppets according to some....

And Sara, he felt really bad for you. He reads blab *A LOT* but doesn't comment often, he's been following this for awhile, I'll leave it up to him if he wants to reply or not, but what some people are saying is fricking insane... :rolleyes

Oh yeah ETA: Look at my avatar, he's real, want me to turn on a webcam?


What an effing joke.

RivnRo
02-05-2011, 11:34 PM
This is a paste: A few quick other things - first off, I think FreisanFury who was selling off for one of the identities (MMD?) was doing it so that she could muddy the waters a little more,

Sorry Riv but this is NOT a mis-read!

It's just a typo on his part - he is referring to Michelle trying to muddy the waters not poor Sara

Stacy
02-05-2011, 11:35 PM
Well, I hope not..because Sara has been nothing but great. If he mucks with her, he's gotta go thru me! Understood?

If you really want to make something out of this you can start it with me. He meant no harm, there's no other way to take it. Got it?

mumtaz
02-05-2011, 11:36 PM
so, for all the people who bought horses and got nothing in return, can something legal really be done? can this person/people be arrested? stealing is stealing, right?

I would think so. I would strongly encourage anyone who was ripped off by JD/MMD/JLG/JC to share their stories with each other---what models they tried to purchase, the amount of money lost, etc. I was involved peripherally in a similar case (different hobby), and the perpetrator was finally arrested and charged, so it can be done.

RivnRo
02-05-2011, 11:36 PM
HOOO Kay kids...

Everyone step away from the keyboard and go get a beer or wine.. or whatever you drink.. And clear your heads...

Mary
02-05-2011, 11:37 PM
Well, I hope not..because Sara has been nothing but great. If he mucks with her, he's gotta go thru me! Understood?
No.

Mod note: Let it go, Karrie. You are derailing.

Mary
02-05-2011, 11:40 PM
I would think so. I would strongly encourage anyone who was ripped off by JD/MMD/JLG/JC to share their stories with each other---what models they tried to purchase, the amount of money lost, etc. I was involved peripherally in a similar case (different hobby), and the perpetrator was finally arrested and charged, so it can be done.Can you describe the process, Kirsten? I've been hoping someone would go to the mat with this, but I don't really know what has to be done. :)

Andrew
02-05-2011, 11:42 PM
Hey. Sorry about that folks. It's the vagaries of the English language at work over the internet.

I meant absolutely nothing by saying what I said about FriesianFury. Absolutely nothing. I understand that she was doing something nice in the hobby for someone who she thought just had a tarnished reputation that they were trying to fix. She did nothing wrong, and should be commended for going out on a limb for a fellow hobbyist.

What I was trying to say is that it's awful that now she's been dragged into this mess because of this scammer. Because all it's going to do is make people hesitant the next time they go out on a limb for them.

So FF, I'm sorry that it came off that way. Honestly, apologies.

But I do want to point out that what I warned about witchhunts happening happened already, within the span of like, half an hour. So, y'know. Just saying.

Also, if you don't believe I am who I am, I mean, ya'll have heard about me often enough through Stacy...and ran through the hallways of the HIN with me and a few others singing songs from Monty Python. So there's that. :D

Eowin
02-05-2011, 11:45 PM
:cheer

RivnRo
02-05-2011, 11:46 PM
Points at Andrew... A WITCH A WITCH!!

but in all seriousness.. as I just posted to Sara on Facebook. Selling those horses for "Michelle" is STILL the right thing to do. There are still people who deserve their money back - "michelle" can't sell anything successfully with her current persona's. The only thing that's changed.. is we all know she is a little crazier than we already thought

mumtaz
02-05-2011, 11:49 PM
Can you describe the process, Kirsten? I've been hoping someone would go to the mat with this, but I don't really know what has to be done. :)

Not much to tell unfortunately. I and a number of other people purchased some rare collectibles from a guy in MN who never mailed the items out and never responded to emails after he received payments. I was only out $60, but I did receive a letter about 2 years after I was scammed asking for details of my transaction. I don't know if anyone involved in the case got restitution, but I heard that the guy was finally arrested and charged with mail fraud (possibly more). Sorry I can't be more helpful than that! I was in grad school at the time and just didn't have the time to keep up with it. The upshot is though that everyone scammed got in touch via a message board, shared their info, and presented it to this guy's local police, and he was prosecuted. So it's most definitely worth a try.

Two Fishies
02-05-2011, 11:49 PM
so, for all the people who bought horses and got nothing in return, can something legal really be done? can this person/people be arrested? stealing is stealing, right? and this makes me wonder....[mod edit - 3rd time to say do not bring other unrelated redlights into this thread] another thing...i wonder why "jennylee" refunded my money when she wasn't able to deliver the horse i had paid for?

michele (shelly) brown

I've seen this kind of behavior before, unfortunately. I won't go into details as to not derail the thread, but it was a similar MO. Lots of bad behavior occasionally followed by restitution.

I think it could come down to two scenarios:

1) "Jennylee" wants to behave juuuuussst well enough that she doesn't have to switch to a new alias just yet. A refund could buy her a few more months of patience.

or 2) Whatsherface really sees herself as the good guy/victim in this situation. We're all just meanies who are out to get her (for the most part.) In your case, she actually felt remorse or couldn't conveniently blame her problems on someone else, so she refunded you.

Personally, I vote for option 1, but I've seen 2 in action and it's not pretty.

FriesianFury
02-05-2011, 11:53 PM
Points at Andrew... A WITCH A WITCH!!

but in all seriousness.. as I just posted to Sara on Facebook. Selling those horses for "Michelle" is STILL the right thing to do. There are still people who deserve their money back - "michelle" can't sell anything successfully with her current persona's. The only thing that's changed.. is we all know she is a little crazier than we already thought

haha yeah that

No harm done Andrew, im just happy it was a typo but im glad you came back on here to say it was and that was not what you meant :hugg

tibbi
02-06-2011, 01:03 AM
No way Sara. :) A lot of people were taken in. You weren't even necessarily one since you only dealt with one of the identities. It is only with your help that some of the victims are now better off than they were. :thumbsup

Yep, years ago I was dupped into helping the Jen Davis persona.

Tibbi

Drakkarstudios
02-06-2011, 02:01 AM
Whoa......I thought that was where this was going last night, but couldn't take it in.....wow.....I liked Jules.....just proves who do you really know...

NatalieK
02-06-2011, 02:05 AM
:lol I do have proof im Sara Gifford! I can post ID :P

I know she's Sara Gifford, too. We can get a picture together holding up a newspaper on Sunday or Monday if you all want it. Eliz and Carra can in turn vouch that I'm real. :D

*I don't feel this is a derail as Sara is very much a part of the MMD drama, since she has met very few hobbiests in real life I am willing to vouch for her existence and identity.

irvinearts
02-06-2011, 03:22 AM
Well.......Karma is a marvellous nuance of life :clap thank goodness you guys are vigilant, great job :)

I've never been comfortable with the whole episode, but being unable to divulge in full, felt a liitle out on a limb and have to say very worried this would never be resolved - and I was by all accounts a very recent victim.....cannot believe this has been going on for that length of time :zow I'd be more than willing to share any other info to bring these people to justice.

Mary and others are right, check, check and double check references and ask for addresses/phone numbers and verify them - it takes five minutes - rather that than having to be dragged through a MMD/JD/JS episode. It's 1 year since I first was in contact with MMD........

Mary
02-06-2011, 08:48 AM
Well.......Karma is a marvellous nuance of life :clap thank goodness you guys are vigilant, great job :)

I've never been comfortable with the whole episode, but being unable to divulge in full, felt a liitle out on a limb and have to say very worried this would never be resolved - and I was by all accounts a very recent victim.....cannot believe this has been going on for that length of time :zow I'd be more than willing to share any other info to bring these people to justice.

Mary and others are right, check, check and double check references and ask for addresses/phone numbers and verify them - it takes five minutes - rather that than having to be dragged through a MMD/JD/JS episode. It's 1 year since I first was in contact with MMD........I want to recognize Heather for the major part she has played in gathering the information we've shared here.
:clap :cheer :trophy

Heather first tracked down common addresses given to several different hobbyists. She did major research locating both the physical location and the real identity of the source of her own problems. Without Heather I'm not sure we would have had the realization of the full extent of what was going on.

Sometimes a scammer picks on the wrong hobbyist, from their own point of view, and that hobbyist is the one with the fortitude and persistence to go the distance to find them out. :thumbsup Not completing the deal with Heather turned out to be a big mistake for this individual. Heather has chosen to take a back seat re public recognition, but the hobby and Blab management owe her a lot for her diligence. :yes





*I don't feel this is a derail as Sara is very much a part of the MMD drama, since she has met very few hobbiests in real life I am willing to vouch for her existence and identity.That is a very fair point, given that the lessons learned are to check, don't assume even if someone is nice, and if you don't know the person make sure someone in the hobby does know them. In Sara's case we do have a lot of evidence that she's not an alter-ego. And we have some Nebraskans with a daily newspaper and a digital camera - should those be called for. ;) :grin

Stitch
02-06-2011, 09:15 AM
Is there any way Mary to do a IP check search for all the registered names here on Blab? I am sure there is more. I don't think she would be smart enough to go through a proxy.

Mary
02-06-2011, 09:17 AM
Thanks to Natalie / keilatan for grabbing this screenshot - the ad has been taken down now. The date reference in the ad is 2/4/2011.

Somehow this story reminds me of MMD telling a previous TTB thread of traveling to a prepper's house, knocking on her door, etc. (http://www.modelhorseblab.com/forums/showthread.php?105580-Frauded-by-Michelle-Mc-Grath-Davis&p=1397035&viewfull=1#post1397035)

25267

bronzino
02-06-2011, 09:19 AM
I apologize to Mary for ducking out last night - I was beat from typing all that junk up yesterday, so I had my dinner and went to bed - and bagged on my friend. :(

Some impressions I would like to share, given what you all wrote:

1) Do try to take the time to sit down and read the first posts. They're only a couple of pages longer than some of our policies on MH$P - that we're routinely complaining buyers don't read, lol. "ZOMG they're all the same person" is not the real point. It's to show that certain key facts were available and in public view that should have made trading partners wary. You don't need an expose to withhold your money, right?

2) There's a difference between interacting with a fake persona on a message board, and handing off your money to somebody. The former is no reflection on us - anybody can sign up and at least for a time pretend to be somebody else. And who cares if they do, really? See #3 below. Caring about that just feeds the beast. So if all we're talking is just message board interaction, there is no need to be so suspicious of one another.

3) The psychology - take a look at the first post. In there, you'll see that various of the IDs were "ratting out" or picking on other IDs, even interacting with them indirectly online. Paying off certain problem buyers (note it was mostly English speakers who could make more trouble than the German contingent) when the heat was on.

I think this person likes the attention, likes the idea that she's putting us all on, and does whatever is required to keep the interaction going. She gets a kick out of our chagrin and teeth-gnashing and tut-tutting over her activity, such that she'll perhaps create personas just to keep that going (see Jules Charon). My advice to people: keep the emotion (the sanctimony, the suspicion, chagrin, annoyance and angst) out of your posts. Keep it clinical and professional-sounding, on those occasions when you remark on her activity.

HTH my friends. :)

Beyondanytherapy
02-06-2011, 09:26 AM
[Mod note: Adding this note that we'll leave this on view as an eyewitness first-person account from someone who says they were personally acquainted with Jenn Davis. Please be aware that no documentation is being offered in this post. ]


In the past, I've hinted at having some knowledge of what went on with Jenn Davis. Honestly, I don't know how true it is now after reading this thread, but I thought I'd post what I know.

Another artist in the hobby (I won't name her. She can come forward if she chooses to.) was close with Jenn and when things started going pear shaped, she and I were in contact trying to find out what was going on. We did a little sleuthing, and from research and any contact we had with Jenn or "her sister" (as we were told was replying) told us this.

What we learned was that about the time things were going bad, the board was told Jenn was losing her job. She claimed that she came to work one day and her boss basically threw her out. She claimed to have a fish tank at work and that he dumped it and threw the fish away. She also claimed that several of the horses she had been trying to sell at the time were at work and were thrown away and/or destroyed as well. I vaguely remember she had a horse she either owned or leased at the time and people were concerned about him. I believe his name was Elvis, but I can't remember. Jenn also had posted many pictures of her hairless cat, Icarus, in the time on blab. I'm not sure how many people around here still remember Ick.

What was later discovered was that Jenn had been arrested for grand larceny at her job. I do not remember the particular amount, but she was accused of having stolen a good deal of money from her job. Around the same time, she was claiming to be having medical issues. I can't recall which came first - the arrest or the medical issues - but that basically accounted for us being unable to contact her, and having to contact "her sister." I was never in contact with the sister, the fellow artist was, but obviously now I call into question if there was a sister or if we were just being played yet again. Since at that time, it was hard to believe Jenn would do something like this, myself and I believe others who were close to her at the time, offered to help in any way they could. I know some people sent money to those who were out horses or tried to replace them in other ways. Until that point, we didn't have any reason to distrust her.

After that all came about, we never heard from her or her sister again. I will say that in the time she was trying to sell much of her collection, she had a few medallions for sale. One was a beautiful blue roan SMB painted by Tom Bainbridge. At one time I remarked to her how much I loved that medallion but at that point couldn't afford it. She sent it to me, for free, instead of selling it. I've wondered lately if she had tried to sell it to anyone else and just kept their money and vanished. If anyone did pay for it and never got it, I would be willing to send it to them, provided they can show proof of payment.

So.. that's all I know. I wasn't able to consult any of my old emails because I can't get to them, but from what I can recall, that should be everything and it should be correct.

Mary
02-06-2011, 09:26 AM
I apologize to Mary for ducking out last night - I was beat from typing all that junk up yesterday, so I had my dinner and went to bed - and bagged on my friend. :(Liz no problem, you deserved dinner and a rest! Putting together that post was a huge, major effort, looking up all the references and following the timeline. :clap :clap :clap

KellyT
02-06-2011, 10:56 AM
The medical issues came first - I believe it was stated to be cancer. I know because she posted that her horse had died around that same time and I sent her a TH Appy Silver that looked like him as a get well gift. I do not have her address any longer. It took me a long time to get her to reply that she had received the package and I remember that was odd.

Kelly Toukatly

Gilder
02-06-2011, 11:02 AM
I remember Jenn Davis and Elvis. I sent Elvis a bucket of his favorite treat (according to Jenn): Nickermakers.

Makoshika
02-06-2011, 11:07 AM
I was in the middle of a trade with Jennifer Davis when she disappeared. I had sent her an 8x10 graphite portrait of her boyfriend's dog, she was sending me a PS Arab "Ziggy" and I would then send her a 5x7 of her cat. (I actually did 2 5x7s of her cat because Jennifer had glowing feedback at the time and seemed like a very nice person that was going through a tough time. :( ) I sent the dog portrait (November 2006), but no Ziggy appeared in return. No reply to my emails. I posted on here multiple times looking for Jennifer, but it seems she had completely vanished. Then, in November of 2008 I received an email from "Nicolle Remus" stating that she had received a box of horses from Jennifer's sister that needed to be sent out and my horse was there, where should she send him. Again, I sent multiple emails to this new person and again, no Ziggy. (I still have the portraits of Icarus, but I suspect Ziggy is long gone.)

I'll be off the computer later today, but I should have a good chunk of time tomorrow if anyone wants copies of the emails and addresses I have. I don't think they'll do much good, but I'll gladly help in anyway I can.

NatalieK
02-06-2011, 11:13 AM
Eliz, this post (http://www.modelhorseblab.com/forums/showthread.php?107481-well-looks-like-I-was-scammed-for-the-1st-time....&p=1546715&viewfull=1#post1546715) just sends shivers down my spine. You're so eerily in tune with this stuff.

I will never cross you, ever.

bronzino
02-06-2011, 11:27 AM
Amber, whatever you've got, we'll incorporate into the timeline.

Nat, maybe there is more scoundrel in me than I would like to admit.

One thing I would like to mention on IP addresses, because they came up frequently early on in this thread. IPs would not have been useful or telling at all to us, at critical junctures. I will not explain why that is, for obvious reasons: I don't want to tip dishonest people about how we put things together. I would ask you guys to refrain from speculating about that, as well. Just know that reliance on IPs can be a terrible crutch; technology is not a replacement for research and common sense. :wink

FriesianFury
02-06-2011, 11:30 AM
That is a very fair point, given that the lessons learned are to check, don't assume even if someone is nice, and if you don't know the person make sure someone in the hobby does know them. In Sara's case we do have a lot of evidence that she's not an alter-ego. And we have some Nebraskans with a daily newspaper and a digital camera - should those be called for. ;) :grin


What evidence?!?! I dont know whats you talking about :haha Im good at covering my tracks and hiding who I am :lol
J/k seems I blab to much :P

bronzino
02-06-2011, 11:32 AM
What evidence?!?! I dont know whats you talking about :haha Im good at covering my tracks and hiding who I am :lol
J/k seems I blab to much :P

:D We're on to you now. Time to become FriesianFilly, a/k/a Sara Gibbons.

Mary
02-06-2011, 11:34 AM
Mod note

Please, for things that were posted on the internet, provide url's. Personal first-hand accounts are ok in TTB. We ask for documentation over memories -- if there are too many memories without documentation we may have to pull back the reins on those.

This thread is intended for factual information, first-hand accounts and documentation. Also advice on protecting onself in hobby transactions. As are all TTB threads.

Thanks all.

Mary
02-06-2011, 11:39 AM
What evidence?!?! I dont know whats you talking about :haha Im good at covering my tracks and hiding who I am :lol
J/k seems I blab to much :P
If I find out that dear Elena is a figment of your imagination ... well, I've gotten attached is all ... :lol (And the boys, the husband, the customs ... )

FriesianFury
02-06-2011, 11:40 AM
:D We're on to you now. Time to become FriesianFilly, a/k/a Sara Gibbons.

:D so who do I talk to so I can make the switch!


If I find out that dear Elena is a figment of your imagination ... well, I've gotten attached is all ... :lol (And the boys, the husband, the customs ... )


im sorry to tell you but I made up my beautiful Elena who seems to be a popular unregistered member.

On the side note do any of you think that MMD or who ever she is has some kind of metal issue like multiple personality disorder or something?

bronzino
02-06-2011, 11:42 AM
:D so who do I talk to so I can make the switch!

I can do it instantly. Nobody will ever know. :wink

Mary
02-06-2011, 11:55 AM
On the side note do any of you think that MMD or who ever she is has some kind of metal issue like multiple personality disorder or something?That's a mental health speculation I'm not so comfortable with. However, it appears to me to be orchestrated across the names. I think it is an organized plan. But that's just my own opinion.

Amanda
02-06-2011, 11:59 AM
My Mind has been blown :thud...:lol Awesome detective work!

Erin
02-06-2011, 12:01 PM
Yes, very impressed with the tracking down that took place here. I will say that I feel like a rear end with a capital A for buying MMD's story, hook line and sinker. Live and learn though. My lesson from this, sadly, will be to be far more suspicious of people that have no "real world" connections to back them up, things like holding/attending shows, or even having met other hobby people in person.

RivnRo
02-06-2011, 12:09 PM
On the side note do any of you think that MMD or who ever she is has some kind of metal issue like multiple personality disorder or something?

Gifford.. you can TRY to hide.. but your spelling will always give you away :D

hi_d_hi
02-06-2011, 12:12 PM
I believed early on that JD/MMD/JG were all the same person, but I never considered that Julie could be another alias. Wow.

The lies the others had coming from their posts was obvious to me from the get go. The hobby is way too trusting. However Julie had me duped.

pitbullmom
02-06-2011, 12:21 PM
This is twice now that this person has preyed on people's genuine sympathies - and did such a bang up job both times. This is a true professional, IMHO. Take a small bit of comfort guys, you're not alone!

ETA: and how do I get my purple appy back? :cry he must be rescued!

RivnRo
02-06-2011, 12:30 PM
ETA: and how do I get my purple appy back? :cry he must be rescued!

It's a long shot..but perhaps Sara could ask for it to sell for restitutions?

Erin
02-06-2011, 12:31 PM
It's a long shot..but perhaps Sara could ask for it to sell for restitutions?

Oh, I REALLY hope Sara doesn't stay involved with this mess! Now that it's clearly not a single hobby person going through a tough time, I don't think it's necessary in the least for her to continue to spend any time on this.

pitbullmom
02-06-2011, 12:38 PM
Yes Sara needs to stay away. Period! Would just love to see the app end up in good hands.

RivnRo
02-06-2011, 12:40 PM
I was under the impression we still had Real hobbiests out money.. Sara hasn't been selling the horses and sending the money back to one of her many persona's has she?

Mary
02-06-2011, 12:46 PM
Sara channeled the sales funds directly to the victims, is my understanding - she'll clarify. Personally I see no problem with her continuing to do that as she is able. Sara is quite probably the international's only hope of restitution. She's protected herself from financial risk, as I understand it. Also, Sara had a definite list of names, contacts and amounts. My suggestion is that if she wishes to finish that list and JD/MMD/JG/JC send models for that purpose, go ahead, and that's an end to it. From this point on really hobbyists must take the risk on themselves if they choose not to check references - just imo.

RivnRo
02-06-2011, 12:50 PM
that was my understanding as well Mary, I certainly wouldn't blame Sara if she did step away from it. But she has been cautious, and hasn't sold anything until it was IN her hands. It was merely a suggestion that PBM's piece be requested via email. He would raise a healthy amount of money.. popular mold.. popular artist and could clear the last of it off while putting PBM's mind at peace that he is loved.

pitbullmom
02-06-2011, 02:04 PM
ooh yes I'd be all for that if it would mean some of these folks would receive the money raised!

dunno how high he would go as he was the first appy I ever did :uh although that could be considered a vintage PBM deco! :lol

but if it would help folks I say a hearty YES

solticeart
02-06-2011, 02:27 PM
if you want her to possibly go to jail.. this is what Id do.. one person preferably in Ny near where she lives..needs to get all the info together... a list of who got ripped off, how much money its was for..including the international ones too.. that alone may be something to get her for.. you never know... with dates and copies of all emails.. plus Id give the cops access to this thread too... so they can read all this and look at the links and post that all the alias said ect... they may be able to get info from them better than we can. she may have slipped and said a few true things that might help the cops... and go to the police.. tell them about the different personas.. if she really did imbezzle from her company then she has a record there and they will know who she is and Im betting they will be more than happy to help file charges against her...

irvinearts
02-06-2011, 02:41 PM
Rebecca may be right I feel, it needs someone on the ground with proof of all of this, or at least somebody to report it in person.

Just as a sidenote - did anyone else spot the heading on Jules Charon's MH$P listing before her address at the bottom?? it says 'McPony sharin' '......really......:randommil

solticeart
02-06-2011, 02:48 PM
one other thing I noticed in that ad.. on the date it says EST now Im in Washington state.. .if i posted an ad would it say PST? if so.. that also proves she is not in texas but on the east coast... not sure if thats the case or not.. do all ads state eastern standard time when posted? or do they say from what area you are posting from?

solticeart
02-06-2011, 02:50 PM
Rebecca may be right I feel, it needs someone on the ground with proof of all of this, or at least somebody to report it in person.

Just as a sidenote - did anyone else spot the heading on Jules Charon's MH$P listing before her address at the bottom?? it says 'McPony sharin' '......really......:randommil
yea thats weird... is it a play on her name charon? sharin? ... like an inside joke to herself?

bronzino
02-06-2011, 02:51 PM
one other thing I noticed in that ad.. on the date it says EST now Im in Washington state.. .if i posted an ad would it say PST? if so.. that also proves she is not in texas but on the east coast... not sure if thats the case or not.. do all ads state eastern standard time when posted? or do they say from what area you are posting from?

I think they're all EST. Probably just the way the timestamp is set up.

bronzino
02-06-2011, 03:21 PM
I need help from someone with a Photobucket account and a screen capture utility. PM me please. Thanks!

yofi
02-06-2011, 03:25 PM
I think that we can safely assume Jennifer Davis is this person's true identity:

http://www.hofstrachronicle.com/2.1156/nassau-county-police-blotter-1.55562

"-On March 20, Jennifer Davis, 33, of Levittown was arrested for grand larceny and falsifying business records. Between December 2003 and February 2007, while employed as a bookkeeper/office manager for Trade Air Conditioning, Davis made unauthorized purchases in excess of $49,000 against a company credit card and forged company checks."

Trying to find out what happened (is happening?) from there, as this arrest was made in 2007.

Found this: http://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/webcrim_attorney/Detail?which=case&docketNumber=utRjgwUfm7ddHNqoWgeyPA==&courtType=L&countyId=kxHaREjUNpNYA4tQhnCz2g==&docketId=Z6qa5d87Gm6LHeDZ4GzQgA==&docketDseq=o6PDyKIx4BvSfbvyCgDnHw==&defendantName=Davis,+Jennifer+M&county=NASSAU&court=Nassau+First+District+Court&recordType=C&recordNum=ku2mhgY/TzSpypUdauCAIw==

bronzino
02-06-2011, 03:32 PM
I got my Photobucket personnel - thanks all.

Liz I could not find anything on the upshot in that case.

However, I did find this. You will have to plug in the name "Jennifer Davis" after you get past the CAPTCHA screen.

http://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/webcrim_attorney/DefendantSearch

This case was adjourned in contemplation of dismissal. This procedural mechanism is for certain marijuana offenses, and is described here (http://law.onecle.com/new-york/criminal-procedure/CPL0170.56_170.56.html). I noted the portion relating to whether it could be used if the person was convicted of a crime previously.

Erin
02-06-2011, 03:34 PM
I got my Photobucket personnel - thanks all.

Liz I could not find anything on the upshot in that case.

However, I did find this. You will have to plug in the name "Jennifer Davis" after you get past the CAPTCHA screen.

http://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/webcrim_attorney/DefendantSearch

This case was adjourned in contemplation of dismissal. This procedural mechanism is for certain marijuana offenses, and is described here (http://law.onecle.com/new-york/criminal-procedure/CPL0170.56_170.56.html). I noted the portion relating to whether it could be used if the person was convicted of a crime previously.

When I go to that page, it lists an appearance date of March 22nd, 2011? Does that mean she will have to show up in court that day in New York?

NatalieK
02-06-2011, 03:37 PM
Gifford.. you can TRY to hide.. but your spelling will always give you away :D

Okay, yep, that totally beats out the newspaper idea.

bronzino
02-06-2011, 03:39 PM
When I go to that page, it lists an appearance date of March 22nd, 2011? Does that mean she will have to show up in court that day in New York?

It does - but notice the prior entry on the right says "Adjourned"? That 3/22/11 date may be just the date when the dismissal becomes effective. It may not be a court appearance at all. The Court Clerk could probably tell you.

NatalieK
02-06-2011, 03:40 PM
one other thing I noticed in that ad.. on the date it says EST now Im in Washington state.. .if i posted an ad would it say PST? if so.. that also proves she is not in texas but on the east coast... not sure if thats the case or not.. do all ads state eastern standard time when posted? or do they say from what area you are posting from?

I snapped the ad and I'm in Nebraska. All MH$P ads are in EST.

solticeart
02-06-2011, 03:42 PM
well thats good then because she has a record of ripping people off so the cops will be more inclined to listen to you make sure you have a copy of that when you go to the police too........ and it could be she made a deal to pay restitution to stay out of jail... or.. did dod a short stay in jail... didn't she totally disappear for awhile? if so see if you can find dates of when she and her alias's were not posting or doing any kind of business online at all.. if so this could be when she was in jail.. ( or could she really have a sister who trying to help her with her hobby dealings while she was in jail?) regardless... try to do a date line of what happened when ... could it be the ripping of people off in the hobby started After her jail time and she was doing to help make money to pay restitution to her company? just a thought.. or she is just an all out thief and rips off everyone.. I don't know but Id try and document everything with dates and copies of emails the article the whole thing and then take that to the police ... but at least we now know her real name and have some type of document of her actions that they can look up... in other words we know which of her names to go after... the first one.. it almost sounds like she could have been a normal collector at one time and then got in over her head wether from the work thing or not and escalated from there...

solticeart
02-06-2011, 03:46 PM
I snapped the ad and I'm in Nebraska. All MH$P ads are in EST.

oh ok thanks was just a thought..

solticeart
02-06-2011, 03:46 PM
I snapped the ad and I'm in Nebraska. All MH$P ads are in EST.

oh ok thanks was just a thought..

solticeart
02-06-2011, 03:48 PM
woops sorry double post.. how did that happen? I hit the reply button one time?

bronzino
02-06-2011, 03:49 PM
I think Blab had a little gas. Mary might be doing something to stir the place up. :)

Also, I have been updating the timeline as I'm getting new information from folks, so you may want to re-skim post #1 occasionally.

hi_d_hi
02-06-2011, 03:50 PM
He reads blab *A LOT* but doesn't comment often, he's been following this for awhile, I'll leave it up to him if he wants to reply or not, but what some people are saying is fricking insane... :rolleyes

I have a group called Raked Over the Coals, if he'd like to join. ;)

hi_d_hi
02-06-2011, 03:51 PM
Points at Andrew... A WITCH A WITCH!!

but in all seriousness.. as I just posted to Sara on Facebook. Selling those horses for "Michelle" is STILL the right thing to do. There are still people who deserve their money back - "michelle" can't sell anything successfully with her current persona's. The only thing that's changed.. is we all know she is a little crazier than we already thought

I for one think that needs to stop and the authorities need to come into this, so she can go to jail.

hi_d_hi
02-06-2011, 03:53 PM
Everyone remember this in the future. Questioning is good, not taking things at face value is good, not trusting those people you have never dealt with is good.

If there's smoke there's fire, best example of what to look for.

yofi
02-06-2011, 04:03 PM
Has anyone called the county clerk to find out about the case? I have to go get ready for work, so I can't, but.

Of course, given it's Sunday they may be closed.

FriesianFury
02-06-2011, 04:04 PM
Gifford.. you can TRY to hide.. but your spelling will always give you away :D


Okay, yep, that totally beats out the newspaper idea.

I could get this!! It would so help hide the real me in that area :haha
http://www.nuance.com/talk/ a voice typing program :devil


Yes Im still in lingo with the mess, and for the most part im ok with it so long as I dont get dragged down or blamed in any bad deeds that this person is doing. I well only sell her horses so long as it is in my hands in my home. I well not sell a horse thats not in my home, in my hands. I well not sell my own horses to pay her debt, I well not pay her debt using my own money (dont have any anyways, thanks to Elena) but I well pay her debt using the money from her horses I have sold. The only thing I well give that is mine is my time. Right now I have 2 horses in hand, one is on hold and the other well not even getting bites :( (I thought it was the right price).

I can ask to see if she has the purple horse but I dont know what it looks like, you have a photo PM it to me. She had emailed me the other day and I have not replied back yet cause I've been busy getting Elena ready for TX (she and daddy left today!) She stated in her email if it was all right for her to send me another horse to sell and I well get back and say yes that I would be more then happy to sell it for her :)

In most of my post about her I have been trying to stay neutral about her since Im the only person able to get touch and get items, and I feel one wrong move on part and she wont talk to me again or send me any more horses

Stitch
02-06-2011, 04:17 PM
I've got jules charon picturetrail account and her location says Long island city NY, with an age of 37. Recent as of December 2010.

bronzino
02-06-2011, 04:19 PM
The year of birth given in that Nassau Cty court record for Jennifer Davis is 1973. Making her 37 in 2010.

ravensgate
02-06-2011, 04:26 PM
:thud

Stitch
02-06-2011, 04:28 PM
You wouldn't happen to have a middle name handy would you Liz for the Jen name?

pitbullmom
02-06-2011, 04:28 PM
:thud

how about it, Jamie? double thud!

Sara I sent you a pic of the purple app.

Horsefeathered
02-06-2011, 04:29 PM
I apologize in advance if this is already covered....are gift subscriptions automatic or do they have to be requested through admin? If not, maybe that would be an idea at least for the time being so that nobody inadvertently gifts a subscription to another of this person's alters? just a thought

Cat Phillips

BeccaG
02-06-2011, 04:30 PM
Wowzers...this is interesting reading! You can be sure that anyone who sees this thread will think twice about messing with hobbyists as persistent and confident as those researching this issue!

solticeart
02-06-2011, 04:41 PM
I just found this post : http://www.modelhorseblab.com/forums/showthread.php?114662-Kangaroo-Shoes!&highlight=
and found it interesting.. she has a photo of herself here but she has dark hair.. not blond.. but.. considering in December she said in another post that she fell off her horse and broke her wrist and 2 vertebra shes moving pretty darn good without a cast or anything huh.. can anyone tell if this neighborhood is in Ny or Tx or where? she could have dies her hair dark... didnt MMD have a pic of herself in her sig with dark hair too? or was it her? I remember her mcgruff name and the pic of dark hair and something about her eyes ...so we have a photo of her.. you cant really see her face very well in it though...

bronzino
02-06-2011, 04:47 PM
I went to Google maps and looked up 105 Spring Lane, Levittown, NY at the street level. Panned for the house and the houses across the street. I didn't see any that looked like this, but maybe she wasn't at her own home at the time.

Also in her MH$P listings, she's been using a camera phone for pictures. Those photos looked better than camera phone pix. So maybe this wasn't her?

Landshark
02-06-2011, 04:51 PM
Well NOTHING in NY is going to look like that in January, assuming that is when those pics were taken.
Oh in the first picture w just the shoes she is wearing pants. In the next 2 photos just the shorts.

Yeah she is not even dressed for NY in January (again, assuming those were recent pics taken in Jan).

solticeart
02-06-2011, 04:52 PM
thats what im wondering too.. since in the other pics of MMD and JD she is a blond.. could this maybe a younger sister.. because she looks younger than 37 too.. does the trees and things look like NY though? and not texas? I have never been to either so thats what I wondered.. im going to look thru her threads for more photos she might have posted..see what I can find..

Alliecat
02-06-2011, 04:52 PM
Could we have a sound off of people who have outstanding claims against this person? I've seen a lot of "she ripped off a bunch of people" and some vague "well she was supposed to give me a trade" type things, but no actual, definite amounts of money stolen. In addition she seems to have paid many people back, and temporarily inconveniencing people is annoying, but not criminal. If the intent is to take legal action against her, you need to know who's in and for how much.

Allie Griffith

Incidentally... in a more general sense... as far as her giving gifts, paying some people back, stealing from work, etc. If you try to figure out whether someone is "basically nice" or "basically a thief" you will fail. All people, even very nice ones and very nasty ones, are nice at some times and untrustworthy at other times. Most people are consistent within a given context, but honesty is very contextual... studies have shown that just because someone steals from work doesn't necessarily mean they will steal from a store and vice-versa. Other studies have found that children who cheat on spelling tests are not more likely to cheat on math tests, and vice versa. The way psychology books put it is that honesty is not a unified trait. The way I would put it is that human beings are more complex than that and you can't make sweeping judgments about every part of someone's character. What we do know is that this person has a pattern of creating multiple identities, deceiving others about her real identity, and using them to take part in transactions she doesn't seem to have the resources to finish. She may be a perfectly lovely person to her husband and children and spend her free time volunteering to feed orphans. That doesn't make two cents worth of difference to someone who has had their money stolen by her.

Stitch
02-06-2011, 04:52 PM
Also facebook, I think some of you are watching her... She goes by Chestnut appaloosa?

Jeannine
02-06-2011, 05:03 PM
Agreed 100%. Especially if this person has already gotten into trouble with the law and allegedly embezzled $40K. I wouldn't want my name associated with her in any shape or form.


I for one think that needs to stop and the authorities need to come into this, so she can go to jail.

ravensgate
02-06-2011, 05:04 PM
Yeah if those pics are of her, from January, two things. That's not New York and she wouldn't be in shorts in NY in January. I doubt you're going to find yucca plants in New York (viewed at house across the street) since they are desert plants that thrive on dry soil and heat AFAIK.

Jeannine
02-06-2011, 05:06 PM
Plus, you never really "know" someone especially if the only interaction you have with them is just on the internet. With the Jennifer Davis case, so many people claimed to "know" her and really made the people who started to question her look bad, while they had never seen her, met her, talked to her in person, etc.


Everyone remember this in the future. Questioning is good, not taking things at face value is good, not trusting those people you have never dealt with is good.

If there's smoke there's fire, best example of what to look for.

ravensgate
02-06-2011, 05:07 PM
Also facebook, I think some of you are watching her... She goes by Chestnut appaloosa?

Somebody posted on her wall in December 'Happy Birthday Jamie'

bronzino
02-06-2011, 05:07 PM
does the trees and things look like NY though? and not texas?

The building type definitely isn't "off" for that neighborhood. It does look rather better maintained than many of them do, and not just because of the landscaping/season.

I am wandering up and down Spring Lane looking for that house. And getting motion sick from the Google pan. Glurg.

FriesianFury
02-06-2011, 05:12 PM
Could we have a sound off of people who have outstanding claims against this person? I've seen a lot of "she ripped off a bunch of people" and some vague "well she was supposed to give me a trade" type things, but no actual, definite amounts of money stolen. In addition she seems to have paid many people back, and temporarily inconveniencing people is annoying, but not criminal. If the intent is to take legal action against her, you need to know who's in and for how much.



theses are the people I know that are waiting for money. The ywell be paid here in a few months by me, since I have a buyer that is paying on one of the horses I have from MMD. So far I have $150. in my account that goes to theses ladies but Im not handing out the money till the buyer pays in full and has her horse she is buying off me. :)

Whats left to be paid to people that I know of
Tina $35.
Uschi $118
Tanja $212

solticeart
02-06-2011, 05:13 PM
found another thread she ( jules charon) started in january.. which she is contradicting her self again about money.. wasnt she selling horses because she needed money so bad but yet.. she posts this about buying a new car in january of this year QUOTE " The Cabrio is long paid off, and I've saved enough that I can put down about $15k on whatever I choose to buy, therefore keeping my payment low to allow for added gas money! END QUOTE ok also she started a thread again I think in january... about wanting someone to do some flat art for her.. she stats she cant pay but will trade and says she gave someone her address.. what address did she give them? I posted there for anyone with info to read this thread ...but she sure was looking at buying alot of things for someone who was short on cash..

bronzino
02-06-2011, 05:17 PM
I doubt you're going to find yucca plants in New York (viewed at house across the street) since they are desert plants that thrive on dry soil and heat AFAIK.

I think it's so awesome that you know this. :thumbsup

rpowife
02-06-2011, 05:17 PM
You wouldn't happen to have a middle name handy would you Liz for the Jen name?

My guess is it's Michelle.

bronzino
02-06-2011, 05:19 PM
It is Michele or Michelle, per Jennifer. Also the court record has her middle initial as "M," if it is the same person.

Sorry I missed your Q earlier April.

ravensgate
02-06-2011, 05:30 PM
I think it's so awesome that you know this. :thumbsup

Haha, first job was in a greenhouse. But the reason I know that is because we have them planted at the farm and at my mom's house and it's the ONE DANG THING I don't have to water!:lol I could be wrong, but I'm going off the pics in the Kangaroo shoes thread and the spiky plants sticking over the driveway across the road. I'm sure there are a ton of plants with similar characteristics but that sure is the first thing that popped into me mind. And how green the grass is. Heck, the grass in TN is deader than a doornail so if those are recent pics, Texas is about the only place (vs. New York) that would still have green grass and warm enough to wear shorts in. HOWEVER, if you look at the first photo in that thread, the person is wearing what appears to be black pants/socks. But all the full body shots show no black above the shoes. Maybe taken at different times or....:dunno

Amanda
02-06-2011, 05:30 PM
I just found this post : http://www.modelhorseblab.com/forums/showthread.php?114662-Kangaroo-Shoes!&highlight= (http://www.modelhorseblab.com/forums/showthread.php?114662-Kangaroo-Shoes%21&highlight=)
and found it interesting.. she has a photo of herself here but she has dark hair.. not blond.. but.. considering in December she said in another post that she fell off her horse and broke her wrist and 2 vertebra shes moving pretty darn good without a cast or anything huh.. can anyone tell if this neighborhood is in Ny or Tx or where? she could have dies her hair dark... didnt MMD have a pic of herself in her sig with dark hair too? or was it her? I remember her mcgruff name and the pic of dark hair and something about her eyes ...so we have a photo of her.. you cant really see her face very well in it though...

huh...im not sure if that could be her...didn't she keep refering to being pregnant (http://www.modelhorseblab.com/forums/showthread.php?107481-well-looks-like-I-was-scammed-for-the-1st-time....&p=1549044&viewfull=1#post1549044)?.....maybe she is early along..but i can't picture a pregnant woman bounding around on those shoes...

ETA : Nevermind, the bottom of the post mentions she's pregnant....

bronzino
02-06-2011, 05:34 PM
If you can believe those PeopleFinders/PeekYou things and some of one of the ID's posts (which one - well it escapes me now), she has connections to California. Family there, if I recall correctly.

But that building style - that does not seem like California to me. That's Shaker shingle, right? And the gable / dormer thing - isn't that more of an eastern phenomenon than a western one?

jasper978
02-06-2011, 05:46 PM
I shipped something to her "mom" a Ginny Davis at the Levittown, NY address just a couple weeks ago. I don't have the envelope or MO with me in person, as they were shipped to my address in Ohio, and I'm in FL for the time being. Need to see if I can get a name and address off of those this week.

I remember her signing one of her recent posts as Julie Charon too, so look into that name also guys.

bronzino
02-06-2011, 05:49 PM
I shipped something to her "mom" a Ginny Davis at the Levittown, NY address just a couple weeks ago.

And I'd like to thank you for confirming that earlier, Jackie. That is what helped me to connect Jules Charon to the other identities. It was really a critical piece of information, IMO.

Heather Irvine and Jacquie Fernandez supplied address information for MMD and JennyLee Guzzi, and I thank them for that also.

It was really a mistake on her part to deal with so many Blabbers. :wink

KellyT
02-06-2011, 05:58 PM
You know, her attorney is listed on the court record. Wouldn't it make sense for FreisianFury (Sarah) to contact him to make sure she wasn't in recepit of stolen property? Then she could let him in on this thread....

Kelly Toukatly

Mary
02-06-2011, 05:59 PM
I apologize in advance if this is already covered....are gift subscriptions automatic or do they have to be requested through admin? If not, maybe that would be an idea at least for the time being so that nobody inadvertently gifts a subscription to another of this person's alters? just a thought

Cat PhillipsGift subs are not automatic. I set them up manually. Fwiw access to Blab is not automatic, either. Spambots don't get through what is simple for hobbyists to accomplish. (Going from free to paid subs is automatic.)

However, I don't have perfect knowledge of everyone who registers, takes a gift or regular paid sub. We've now blocked the ip's but there are ways around that. So, do expect that JD will be back on Blab and may be reading this thread now. Probably is. It's sort of like screening everyone who buys a ticket to a large concert - there is a limit to how effectively that can be done. :)

There's no way to protect people on the internet, really. Each person's best protection is their own discretion. :yes

Misty
02-06-2011, 06:00 PM
:thud Wow. My brain hurts after reading all that.

Great detective work y'all!

Mary
02-06-2011, 06:01 PM
You know, her attorney is listed on the court record. Wouldn't it make sense for FreisianFury (Sarah) to contact him to make sure she wasn't in recepit of stolen property? Then she could let him in on this thread....

Kelly ToukatlyWhy?

If anyone is going to take an action, I wouldn't spook the target and give them more of a running start than they already have. Understand that this person does not react as you or I would. Their first instinct isn't going to be to return things, but to get rid of them. IMO

BearsnBugs
02-06-2011, 06:02 PM
I doubt you're going to find yucca plants in New York (viewed at house across the street) since they are desert plants that thrive on dry soil and heat AFAIK.

Could be NY. I have yucca plants. They are currently sitting under at least 2 ft of snow, they've been here since we moved in nearly 13 yrs ago. To say they thrive is an understatement. Ever try to kill one of them? All it did was make them spread out and be happier - you should see the flowers they pop out each year. So, can't rule out NY from the yucca. The green and lack of snow - not NY this time of year, for sure!

bronzino
02-06-2011, 06:02 PM
You know, her attorney is listed on the court record. Wouldn't it make sense for FreisianFury (Sarah) to contact him to make sure she wasn't in recepit of stolen property? Then she could let him in on this thread....

Kelly Toukatly

Alas Kelly, her attorney is not going to admit that Sara might have stolen property, because then his client would be a thief, and he's paid to defend her.

If Sara thinks she might even possibly be in receipt of stolen property, then probably the best thing for her to do is to get out of this and talk to her own counsel.

solticeart
02-06-2011, 06:04 PM
I also just pm'ed one more persons she said in the thread she gave her address to on here to see if it was also in ny.. and yea that house looks more to me like a ny house and she could have taken the pics in the summer ( or hell made the whole thing up for all we know and its not even her or anyone she even knows!) .. but .. believe it or not yucca like that can grow in wet and cold places.. there are some in town here and even palm trees! I was shocked when I saw them but they grow ok here.. ( north of seattle!) so its possible they could still be yucca like plants and be in Ny.. if they are surrounded by other plants and trees are overhead. so its a kind of micro climate its possible.. but yea it just looks alot like a Ny neighborhood more than texas style to me.. the age and style of the houses but I haven't really been to either just seen lots of photos.. also she mentions in that shoe post she is going to texas... didn't say to live there just going there..so it must be ny?

Kristi Hale
02-06-2011, 06:08 PM
Where is the yucca/shorts/etc photo everyone is talking about? I can't find a link to it in the thread...

bronzino
02-06-2011, 06:09 PM
Where is the yucca/shorts/etc photo everyone is talking about? I can't find a link to it in the thread...

http://www.modelhorseblab.com/forums/showthread.php?114662-Kangaroo-Shoes!&highlight=

here ya go K

FriesianFury
02-06-2011, 06:12 PM
Alas Kelly, her attorney is not going to admit that Sara might have stolen property, because then his client would be a thief, and he's paid to defend her.

If Sara thinks she might even possibly be in receipt of stolen property, then probably the best thing for her to do is to get out of this and talk to her own counsel.

Well so far as far as I know I dont have any stolen property. But I dont have a problem returning stolen property. I do take many photos of the horses in hand and give out there details of the horse, so if someone PM me saying hey thats my horse, I well turn around and ask for all proof that the horse I have is there horse, and if all proof of it being there horse I am more then happy to hand the horse over to them freely with no coast :)

Gilder
02-06-2011, 06:34 PM
If y'all are wondering if that house in the background of the Kangaroo shoes thread looks like it might be sitting in NY... I am married to a native New Yorker: "Born in Brooklyn, raised on Long Island." (If I had a nickle for every time I heard that...) Yeah, that looks like a house on Long Island. John's parents' house was in North Babylon, but his sister lived in Levittown for a while... Yep, another match for Mr. Levit's neighborhood.

But the grass is wrong for this time of year... the house is right, though.

ravensgate
02-06-2011, 06:35 PM
Could be NY. I have yucca plants. They are currently sitting under at least 2 ft of snow, they've been here since we moved in nearly 13 yrs ago. To say they thrive is an understatement. Ever try to kill one of them? All it did was make them spread out and be happier - you should see the flowers they pop out each year. So, can't rule out NY from the yucca. The green and lack of snow - not NY this time of year, for sure!

Haha, well I wasn't sure how far the yucca spanned or could thrive. I know they love, love, love heat. ANd yeah, you'd have to have a special talent to kill one. So that aside, I'll just look at the bright green grass (looks like sod though). But those could be summer pics or pics of someone other than her anyway since the socks/pants thing is different.

Kristi Hale
02-06-2011, 06:35 PM
http://www.modelhorseblab.com/forums/showthread.php?114662-Kangaroo-Shoes!&highlight= (http://www.modelhorseblab.com/forums/showthread.php?114662-Kangaroo-Shoes%21&highlight=)

here ya go K
Hey, those look kinda fun... I can't imagine that's New York, though, unless it was taken last summer. What part of Texas is it considered to be? Might be east Texas, otherwise it would have to be someplace where they water the bejeebers out of the lawns.

solticeart
02-06-2011, 06:45 PM
as far as I know she never said Where in texas she lived.. she just had texas under where it says location but I see on one of the oldest threads she started it doesn't say anything. my bet the photos were taken in summer... and its possible its not even her.. but a relative or neighbor..

Kristi Hale
02-06-2011, 06:48 PM
Could be a million places.

Mary
02-06-2011, 06:52 PM
http://www.modelhorseblab.com/forums/showthread.php?114662-Kangaroo-Shoes!&highlight= (http://www.modelhorseblab.com/forums/showthread.php?114662-Kangaroo-Shoes%21&highlight=)

here ya go KIMO that could most definitely be Texas. Abundant landscape hedges, and the palmettos and vines are very typical where I'm from in south central where it's humid. Also her clothes. What's not so typical are the one-car garage and shingled siding, steep roof and dormered windows. However anyone can choose any style of house they like. This could easily be an older neighborhood, which would be supported by the size of the hedges. Those had no restrictions on what kind of house - what look - was built, and have variety. People who moved from the north and built would sometimes choose a house style they were familiar with where they came from.

Honestly, there is no way to tell where in the U.S. that is just from the photo.

Even though the post was in January, that doesn't mean the photo was. She doesn't say when the photo was taken or when she got the shoes. People pull up old photos to post all the time - I do. I don't always get them off the camera/cellphone for months. And, where I grew up the grass was abundantly green in January, just north of Houston. Days in the 60's were common. Best month of the year. I don't think the analyzing the photo tells much of anything. :)

Mary
02-06-2011, 06:54 PM
as far as I know she never said Where in texas she lived.. she just had texas under where it says location but I see on one of the oldest threads she started it doesn't say anything. my bet the photos were taken in summer... and its possible its not even her.. but a relative or neighbor..
:exactly on all points

bronzino
02-06-2011, 06:54 PM
Amber Crisafulli just provided me with some information.

She says, amongst other things, that she entered into a deal with Jennifer Davis in 2006 - an exchange of drawings for models. Amber was instructed to ship the portrait to Jennifer Davis c/o Trade Air Conditioning in Hicksville, NY.

Go back to that police blotter link from 2007, and look at the company name and the location. It's the same company and city.

None of this demonstrates that Jennifer was convicted or that she plead guilty. For all we know, she could have been acquitted, the charges dropped, anything. But it might explain why she dropped out of the hobby in 2007. She apparently had some legal business to address.

bronzino
02-06-2011, 07:02 PM
Also a big thank you to Amber for the info. It is very much appreciated!

cherrywood
02-06-2011, 07:08 PM
IMO that could most definitely be Texas. Abundant landscape hedges, and the palmettos and vines are very typical where I'm from in south central where it's humid. Also her clothes. What's not so typical are the one-car garage and shingled siding, steep roof and dormered windows. However anyone can choose any style of house they like. This could easily be an older neighborhood, which would be supported by the size of the hedges. Those had no restrictions on what kind of house - what look - was built, and have variety. People who moved from the north and built would sometimes choose a house style they were familiar with where they came from.

Honestly, there is no way to tell where in the U.S. that is just from the photo.
:)

Been reading for a bit and Wow
And just want to say something about the houses. I live behind a neighborhood that has a LOT of New England style house w/ single car garages. Even right now after a hard freeze they still have lovely manicured green lawns :sigh

Thing is many a well mantianed neighborhood could look like that. and on another note dont see to many early preg. people hopping around on roo shoes something about the morning sickness/nausea thing :dunno

Mary
02-06-2011, 07:10 PM
Thing is many a well mantianed neighborhood could look like that. and on another note dont see to many early preg. people hopping around on roo shoes something about the morning sickness/nausea thing :dunnoAnd not wanting an accident that would jeopardize the pregnancy. But the photo could have been and old one.

Really I don't think the photo tells us anything. :)

bronzino
02-06-2011, 07:12 PM
Amber Crisafulli just provided me with some information.

She says, amongst other things, that she entered into a deal with Jennifer Davis in 2006 - an exchange of drawings for models. Amber was instructed to ship the portrait to Jennifer Davis c/o Trade Air Conditioning in Hicksville, NY.

Go back to that police blotter link from 2007, and look at the company name and the location. It's the same company and city.

None of this demonstrates that Jennifer was convicted or that she plead guilty. For all we know, she could have been acquitted, the charges dropped, anything. But it might explain why she dropped out of the hobby in 2007. She apparently had some legal business to address.

Correction: Amber shipped to Traditional Air Conditioning, and the police blotter says Trade Air Conditioning.

cherrywood
02-06-2011, 07:13 PM
And not wanting an accident that would jeopardize the pregnancy. But the photo could have been and old one.

Really I don't think the photo tells us anything. :)

My point excatly :)

hi_d_hi
02-06-2011, 07:14 PM
Yeah if those pics are of her, from January, two things. That's not New York and she wouldn't be in shorts in NY in January. I doubt you're going to find yucca plants in New York (viewed at house across the street) since they are desert plants that thrive on dry soil and heat AFAIK.

That's not the desert. They don't have blue grass in the desert, and it's way too green. But it could be in the south.

hi_d_hi
02-06-2011, 07:17 PM
huh...im not sure if that could be her...didn't she keep refering to being pregnant (http://www.modelhorseblab.com/forums/showthread.php?107481-well-looks-like-I-was-scammed-for-the-1st-time....&p=1549044&viewfull=1#post1549044)?.....maybe she is early along..but i can't picture a pregnant woman bounding around on those shoes...

ETA : Nevermind, the bottom of the post mentions she's pregnant....

Now you are believing that she IS pregnant. Someone that lies, you cannot trust anything they say.

hi_d_hi
02-06-2011, 07:19 PM
If you can believe those PeopleFinders/PeekYou things and some of one of the ID's posts (which one - well it escapes me now), she has connections to California. Family there, if I recall correctly.

But that building style - that does not seem like California to me. That's Shaker shingle, right? And the gable / dormer thing - isn't that more of an eastern phenomenon than a western one?

That house isn't a style from out here, but only recently in newer neighborhoods. The biggest factor of it not looking like the west, is the green. This is desert, even where it's cool it's not green like that, and Yucca's are a different green as well.

hi_d_hi
02-06-2011, 07:22 PM
Why?

If anyone is going to take an action, I wouldn't spook the target and give them more of a running start than they already have. Understand that this person does not react as you or I would. Their first instinct isn't going to be to return things, but to get rid of them. IMO

That's assuming she has anything to begin with. Sure some things, and I'm sure a lot more that have nothing to do with model horses. People like this aren't only going to be conning here, they will be on the take out there too.

ravensgate
02-06-2011, 07:32 PM
That's not the desert. They don't have blue grass in the desert, and it's way too green. But it could be in the south.

I didn't say it was the desert. I was talking specifically about the plant which typically does better in desert conditions.

ETA: And yuccas come in many shades of green and varieties.

Kristi Hale
02-06-2011, 07:41 PM
Hicksville. LOL

hi_d_hi
02-06-2011, 07:59 PM
I didn't say it was the desert. I was talking specifically about the plant which typically does better in desert conditions.

ETA: And yuccas come in many shades of green and varieties.

Yes I know, they do come in many varieties. But I was talking about the color. You don't find them that color in the desert, so I would say the location is the east coast, the northwest, or wherever it rains a lot. Same with the grass and everything else that's green in that photo. We have other greens in arid regions, not green, green.

The way you answered though, did make it imply you were thinking since it's a yucca plant it grows where yucca's normally grow. This may be an assumption on my part, but that's the way it sounded.

HorseChick
02-06-2011, 08:04 PM
Yeah if those pics are of her, from January, two things. That's not New York and she wouldn't be in shorts in NY in January. I doubt you're going to find yucca plants in New York (viewed at house across the street) since they are desert plants that thrive on dry soil and heat AFAIK.

Jaime, where are you seeing yucca plants? The only thing I see that's close in shape are the sword shaped small plants in the left corner of the drive across the street. Yuccas are a sun plant that are more aloelike in aspect, even when young. Those look more like some type of iris leaves, IMO.

SylvanTrails
02-06-2011, 08:07 PM
Looking at the Kangaroo pictures...the first ones, if you look at the grass around the edges, it could be a different place from the others. Perhaps the first one is "real" and the others are stock photos from somewhere? :dunno


Correction: Amber shipped to Traditional Air Conditioning, and the police blotter says Trade Air Conditioning.

The company I work for is Applied Information Systems, I regularly put down Applied Info Sys. Traditional/Trade, not that much of a stretch.

hi_d_hi
02-06-2011, 08:09 PM
Looking at the Kangaroo pictures...the first ones, if you look at the grass around the edges, it could be a different place from the others. Perhaps the first one is "real" and the others are stock photos from somewhere? :dunno




The company I work for is Applied Information Systems, I regularly put down Applied Info Sys. Traditional/Trade, not that much of a stretch.

I tried Googling Kangaroo jumps images and couldn't find either photo.

MagicGothElf
02-06-2011, 08:15 PM
I tried Googling Kangaroo jumps images and couldn't find either photo.

I found the website after googling Kangaroo jumping shoes...here's the website that I guess makes them...http://www.kangoojumps.com/doc14.htm

Mary
02-06-2011, 08:17 PM
Kangaroo shoes? Yucca plants? :lol I guess the subject has really petered out. :grin

Intothesunstudio
02-06-2011, 08:22 PM
:wow Just read this whole thread and ...wow blown away. I haven't dealt with any of these names. But just blown away by how someone would go to that extreme to dupe and steal from people in a hobby which is supposed to be fun... Really sick and insane.

Sweet Defense
02-06-2011, 08:24 PM
Looking out the window - yep, our lawn is dead and brown with a few green patches. Has been since about November, and we live in Houston. We also managed to kill our Yucca, it drowned one summer. Honestly if it's this time of year, it looks mostly like southern CA as far as the plants, etc. Lawns are very green there right now, or at least were a week or two ago.

RivnRo
02-06-2011, 08:28 PM
Kangaroo shoes? Yucca plants? :lol I guess the subject has really petered out. :grin

I would just like to point out I didn't do it :D

ravensgate
02-06-2011, 08:30 PM
Jaime, where are you seeing yucca plants? The only thing I see that's close in shape are the sword shaped small plants in the left corner of the drive across the street. Yuccas are a sun plant that are more aloelike in aspect, even when young. Those look more like some type of iris leaves, IMO.

That's what I'm talking about, and the yuccas we have at the farm thrive in full shade that gets zero sun throughout the day. They do just fine in sun or shade. And I don't consider them aloe like except for the fact the leaves are pointed:dunno

As I said earlier, that's what they look like to me. Sorry to have derailed the thread into a bizarre yucca argument. Carry on.

4ever_Unbridled
02-06-2011, 08:43 PM
:wow Just read this whole thread and ...wow blown away. I haven't dealt with any of these names. But just blown away by how someone would go to that extreme to dupe and steal from people in a hobby which is supposed to be fun... Really sick and insane.

:yeahthat

I just read the whole thread and :thud

I cannot believe it. It really is sick but sad too that someone would do this. I too have not dealt with any of these identities but I wish I knew some important information that would help put this person in jail. I had no idea this had been going on for so long and with so many alias names around, possibly more than we know. I hope this discovery will encourage hobbiests to more thoroughly and carefully check references for sellers - I know I will be checking more.

I'd also like to thank everyone who helped peice together this mystery and finally expose some identities and connections of this "Jennifer Davis" person to the model horse hobby. I had no clue so thank you for making me and others aware of this situation.

4ever_Unbridled
02-06-2011, 08:46 PM
I would just like to point out I didn't do it :D

Now that's an accomplishment - congrats:grin!

camaro88lover
02-06-2011, 08:47 PM
Nah - Shauna - you're guilty....any thread derailment is automatically your fault....you do it telepathically....seee!?!? You're doing it to me RIGHT NOW!!

Alliecat
02-06-2011, 08:54 PM
The thing about calling for this person to be put in jail is that so far, 3 people have said she owes them a total of $365. That's not even enough money to be more than misdemeanor theft.

Where are all the people she's supposedly defrauded? Would they please come out and post on this thread? For such a huge career of falsifying identities, she seems not to have been very successful in her take.

Laura G
02-06-2011, 09:21 PM
I just looked at these 2 pictures, and am I thinking are they the same person, or am I just kookoobananas? :dunno

JD and "Dave":
http://www.modelhorseblab.com/forums/image.php?u=424&type=profile&dateline=1159389390

Michelle McGrath/"Mish":
http://s187.photobucket.com/albums/x54/michelemcgrath/?action=view&current=mish.jpg&newest=1

I don't have a dawg in this fight, but I do remember JD/bayba, didn't know her well, but I might have sent her some money or possibly even bought something from her. If so, it wasn't a lot of money, I just felt bad for her and wanted to help. I'm sorry that this person took so many people in, it's shame, really, that people feel the need to do that. It hurts, both emotionally, and financially. :( :hugg

Kristi Hale
02-06-2011, 09:25 PM
Looks like the same person to me, as far as I can tell with one of "them" wearing sunglasses.

pitbullmom
02-06-2011, 09:28 PM
Looks like the same person to me, as far as I can tell with one of "them" wearing sunglasses.

her choppers look a bit different, but maybe she bought herself some new ones with all that money.

you are right on Laura - she was in the hobby before I was, I remember seeing her on the sales pages and such with all these beautiful resins - she was fully insinuated in the hobby and then she insinuated herself into peoples' lives. And was seemingly very kind. No wonder people did defend her.

hindsight is most definitely 20/20.

Laura G
02-06-2011, 09:32 PM
Yeah, Kristi, that's what I was thinking too. I wish there were more pictures we could compare.

RivnRo
02-06-2011, 09:46 PM
Nah - Shauna - you're guilty....any thread derailment is automatically your fault....you do it telepathically....seee!?!? You're doing it to me RIGHT NOW!!

Hey now I have gone above and beyond to behave on this thread despite my natural inclination to do otherwise!

HorseChick
02-06-2011, 09:58 PM
That's what I'm talking about, and the yuccas we have at the farm thrive in full shade that gets zero sun throughout the day. They do just fine in sun or shade. And I don't consider them aloe like except for the fact the leaves are pointed:dunno

As I said earlier, that's what they look like to me. Sorry to have derailed the thread into a bizarre yucca argument. Carry on.

Yucca leaves form a rosette around the stalk, as aloe do. They are members of the Agave family. They form a tree like trunk as they age. We use the cane form in accounts, on occasion.

Sorry for the derail, as well. The interiorscaper/horticulturalist in me couldn't help it. :D

Amanda
02-06-2011, 10:28 PM
Now you are believing that she IS pregnant. Someone that lies, you cannot trust anything they say.

I wasn't saying I believed what she said, I was just stating that I miss-read the post i was referring to, and wanted to correct information.

NatalieK
02-06-2011, 10:44 PM
If y'all are wondering if that house in the background of the Kangaroo shoes thread looks like it might be sitting in NY... I am married to a native New Yorker: "Born in Brooklyn, raised on Long Island." (If I had a nickle for every time I heard that...) Yeah, that looks like a house on Long Island. John's parents' house was in North Babylon, but his sister lived in Levittown for a while... Yep, another match for Mr. Levit's neighborhood.

But the grass is wrong for this time of year... the house is right, though.

I worked for a sprinkler company who serviced upstate NY, Manhattan, NH, etc. There's no way the grass would be this green, they blow out the sprinklers every October and shut the water off to them. They start back up in March.

Stitch
02-06-2011, 10:52 PM
I worked for a sprinkler company who serviced upstate NY, Manhattan, NH, etc. There's no way the grass would be this green, they blow out the sprinklers every October and shut the water off to them. They start back up in March.

The pictures could have been taken anywhere at any time. She could have been on a trip, it could have been early summer in the area we don't know. We can't really go by them.

NatalieK
02-06-2011, 10:57 PM
Trying to catch up here, April. Gimme a break.

NatalieK
02-06-2011, 10:59 PM
I just looked at these 2 pictures, and am I thinking are they the same person, or am I just kookoobananas? :dunno

JD and "Dave":
http://www.modelhorseblab.com/forums/image.php?u=424&type=profile&dateline=1159389390

Michelle McGrath/"Mish":
http://s187.photobucket.com/albums/x54/michelemcgrath/?action=view&current=mish.jpg&newest=1

I don't have a dawg in this fight, but I do remember JD/bayba, didn't know her well, but I might have sent her some money or possibly even bought something from her. If so, it wasn't a lot of money, I just felt bad for her and wanted to help. I'm sorry that this person took so many people in, it's shame, really, that people feel the need to do that. It hurts, both emotionally, and financially. :( :hugg

Hmmm. This "celebrity" looks a lot like those profile pictures. https://www.dancetheatre.net/staff.htm

bronzino
02-06-2011, 11:01 PM
Hmmm. This "celebrity" looks a lot like those profile pictures. https://www.dancetheatre.net/staff.htm

BIG WALL OF WARNING: really loud music at Nat's link. I nearly peed myself!! :haha

ravensgate
02-06-2011, 11:02 PM
Well those two photos posted of Michelle and Jenn look absolutely nothing alike to me. I retouched Jenn's engagement photo. There's really no way those are the same two people unless Jenn had a helluva lot of work done.

NatalieK
02-06-2011, 11:02 PM
BIG WALL OF WARNING: really loud music at Nat's link. I nearly peed myself!! :haha

Sorry 'bout that. I keep my sound shut off because of that crap.

NatalieK
02-06-2011, 11:03 PM
Well those two photos posted of Michelle and Jenn look absolutely nothing alike to me. I retouched Jenn's engagement photo. There's really no way those are the same two people unless Jenn had a helluva lot of work done.

The hair matches http://www.modelhorseblab.com/forums/image.php?u=424&type=profile&dateline=1159389390

bronzino
02-06-2011, 11:04 PM
Sorry 'bout that. I keep my sound shut off because of that crap.

That's okay. :) I really should learn to do that too!

ravensgate
02-06-2011, 11:05 PM
The hair matches http://www.modelhorseblab.com/forums/image.php?u=424&type=profile&dateline=1159389390

That's Jenn. The photos posted earlier are of Jenn and Michelle. I'm saying Jenn looks nothing like the alleged Michelle. Come on Nat, keep up.

bronzino
02-06-2011, 11:07 PM
Well those two photos posted of Michelle and Jenn look absolutely nothing alike to me. I retouched Jenn's engagement photo. There's really no way those are the same two people unless Jenn had a helluva lot of work done.

I'm with Nat on this. The photo of Jenn and Dave in her profile does match the engagement pic, I think. Assuming that either one of the photos is her.

ETA: I gotta keep up too, apparently - sorry James. :D

Thanks for posting that. It was almost as shocking, somehow, as Natalie's damn disco music.

Landshark
02-06-2011, 11:08 PM
I agree w Jaime. They look nothing alike. You guys are seeing things that aren't there. And in the end, does it really matter?

FriesianFury
02-06-2011, 11:09 PM
BIG WALL OF WARNING: really loud music at Nat's link. I nearly peed myself!! :haha

im missing plug in so no music for me to hear :haha

Kristi Hale
02-06-2011, 11:12 PM
The picture from Photobucket and the picture of the woman in sunglasses looks like the same person to me. The third picture Jaime just posted looks like a different woman.

Now, LOL, I can't keep track of who is supposed to be whom, but that's MHO anyway.

ravensgate
02-06-2011, 11:13 PM
The picture from Photobucket and the picture of the woman in sunglasses look like the same woman. The other one looks like a different woman.

Now, LOL, I can't keep track of who is supposed to be whom, but that's MHO anyway.

Yes, you are correct. Nobody is keeping up:hammer :lol Sunglassed and my photo are BOTH JENN. The other woman is NOT Jenn (the photo of Michelle).

This is Michelle allegedly

http://s187.photobucket.com/albums/x54/michelemcgrath/?action=view&current=mish.jpg&newest=1

bronzino
02-06-2011, 11:15 PM
The hair matches http://www.modelhorseblab.com/forums/image.php?u=424&type=profile&dateline=1159389390


http://www.modelhorseblab.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=25300&stc=1&d=1297051322

These are the two photos we're comparing, and yes, they do look alike.

The first one is from Jenn's profile; the second is one Jaime had because she retouched Jenn's engagement picture.

What Jaime is saying is that there is no resemblance with still another photo.

Also: it was more fun when we were arguing over grass. Get back to grass.

Landshark
02-06-2011, 11:16 PM
Jaime - I'm kept up with you!!!!

Sweet Defense
02-06-2011, 11:16 PM
Sunglasses and crazy-eyed guy/engagement pictures look alike. The picture of "Michelle" is different, the eye shape is very different.

Kristi Hale
02-06-2011, 11:16 PM
Now I'm really confused. :randommil I thought all three were thought to be the same person? I mean regardless of photos... Jenn and Michelle McGrath are two different people? I must have this wrong.

Kristi Hale
02-06-2011, 11:19 PM
These are the two photos we're comparing, and yes, they do look alike.

The first one is from Jenn's profile; the second is one Jaime had because she retouched Jenn's engagement picture.

What Jaime is saying is that there is no resemblance with still another photo.

Also: it was more fun when we were arguing over grass. Get back to grass.
Whereas I thought the other photo (McGrath's Photobucket) does look like the one from Jenn's profile, but not the engagement photo. In other words:

1. Photobucket Photo and Profile Photo look alike
2. Profile Photo and Engagement Photo look alike
3. Photobucket Photo and Engagement Photo do not look alike

Or something...

bronzino
02-06-2011, 11:19 PM
Now I'm really confused. :randommil I thought all three were thought to be the same person? I mean regardless of photos... Jenn and Michelle McGrath are two different people? I must have this wrong.

From the Encyclopedia that is Post #1:



PhotoBucket account associated with Michelle/Michele, per Heather I. (http://s187.photobucket.com/home/michelemcgrath) Note there's a photo in there identified as "Mish." Hard to say if that's for real.

Kristi Hale
02-06-2011, 11:21 PM
Sunglasses and crazy-eyed guy/engagement pictures look alike. The picture of "Michelle" is different, the eye shape is very different.
The eye shape is different from the engagement photo, but we can't see her eyes in the sunglasses photo, and the shape of her face, head, hair details etc. look like the "Michelle" photo to me.

Actually, I have no idea where any of this leads or what it all means, I'm just commenting on which photos look alike...

bronzino
02-06-2011, 11:27 PM
The photos do matter, if you can find any corroboration that the photo actually shows one of the actors. The Roo Shoes pix were a big fail there. :)

If we were to find a photo of MMD that looked like Jenn's photos, that would be handy, wouldn't it? It's not likely, but I wouldn't have called any of the facts we've assembled "likely." And yet we have them.

ravensgate
02-06-2011, 11:29 PM
Jaime - I'm kept up with you!!!!

:hugg It IS hard to keep up in this thread.:lol

RivnRo
02-06-2011, 11:30 PM
I was rather enjoying the concept of her as a flygirl ;D course now the in living colour theme is stuck in my head

bronzino
02-06-2011, 11:35 PM
The eye shape is different from the engagement photo, but we can't see her eyes in the sunglasses photo, and the shape of her face, head, hair details etc. look like the "Michelle" photo to me.

Compare the Profile/Sunglasses pic with the engagement photo again. She loses the lower row of teeth when she smiles. Not everyone does that. Rather thin upper lip for a woman. She has a high forehead. She has bangs that fall the same way in both photos. Her hair is straight on top and wavy on the bottom. It's parted just to the right of the middle of her face.

The men are almost identical except for some weight gain. Both blue-eyed, with the same apparent aberrations in the teeth (his teeth came in so that his incisors are pushed too far forward, IIRC).

Hair the same length and he's got a reasonably high forehead too. Gold chains on both people. Faces the same shape.

ravensgate
02-06-2011, 11:36 PM
Sunglasses and crazy-eyed guy/engagement pictures look alike. The picture of "Michelle" is different, the eye shape is very different.

They look alike because they are the same people (both people, Dave and Jenn). Michele and Jenn looking NOTHING alike. Eye shape, eye color, teeth and entire face different.

Here we go.

This is allegedly Michele.

http://s187.photobucket.com/albums/x54/michelemcgrath/?action=view&current=mish.jpg&newest=1

This is Jenn.

PHOTO #1 Jenn

http://www.modelhorseblab.com/forums/image.php?u=424&type=profile&dateline=1159389390

PHOTO # 2 and #3 Jenn

ravensgate
02-06-2011, 11:45 PM
Oh come on, where'd everybody go??? Grass is purple.

Kristi Hale
02-06-2011, 11:50 PM
Well, I don't know who's who, but that guy sure has a "THEY'RE COMING TO TAKE ME AWAAAAY!" look about him.

Mary
02-06-2011, 11:53 PM
I'll throw in another photo. If you do a google search on Jenny Guzzi (drop the "lee") and Long Island or New York, you'll find a Jenny Guzzi horse trainer at Lil Bits Farm in Smithtown, NY, just a few miles from Levittown/Farmingdale. And you'll find this for the same person, see the 4th photo down ...

online brochure Long Island Horse Properties (http://www.lihorseproperties.com/lihorseprop/agents/index.php?view=list&PageNum=1)

a photo from her facebook (http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001455132225#%21/photo.php?fbid=141587255899778&set=a.108627385862432.6286.100001455132225)
another photo (http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001455132225#%21/photo.php?fbid=141900405868463&set=a.108627385862432.6286.100001455132225&pid=259094&id=100001455132225)

I see resemblances, but not sure these are the same people as above. If they are then I think he has gained weight in the photos in the above posts. IMO this Jenny Guzzi is younger than the Jenn Davis above.

I'm guessing the Jacqueline Evans in the brochure above her is her sister, as she's also referenced as a Guzzi, as is the firm's owner at the top, their mother Sharyn Guzzi.

facebook for the real estate firm (http://www.facebook.com/LongIslandEquine?v=app_4949752878) with more photos of both young women
facebook for the Jenny Guzzi (http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001455132225) in these photos

Keep searching and there is even more information on a Jenny Guzzi - and it is the only Jenny Guzzi that comes up in the area, for me. I did not find anything for Jennylee Guzzi, just Jenny.

I do not know that this Jenny Guzzi is the same person as Jennifer Davis - frankly I don't think they are, for several reasons. Given Jenn Davis said she was a horse owner I speculate she could know of this Jenny Guzzi. I don't know how many places there are on LI to keep a horse, but looking up Lil Bits Farm, that's one place close to Jenn Davis.

This is just basic internet searching, this info is available to anyone who wants to look for it.

Here we go - Jenny Guzzi now Tsiclaos of Smithtown, NY on Long Island, facebook photo album
http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs1366.snc4/163805_141587255899778_100001455132225_257988_3879 614_n.jpg

pitbullmom
02-07-2011, 12:16 AM
Oh come on, where'd everybody go??? Grass is purple.

it is at my house! :lol sorry, couldn't resist...ok letsee - it could be possible she (Jenn) knows of this Jenny and just was using her name. Same location and all, easy to do.

it could be possible...that I've totally lost track of this because my pea brain is overloaded.

and the BF definitely looks a little overwhelmed. :uh

john
02-07-2011, 12:18 AM
Well, I don't know who's who, but that guy sure has a "THEY'RE COMING TO TAKE ME AWAAAAY!" look about him.

:laff :roflmao :bolt

Landshark
02-07-2011, 12:36 AM
Okay I got a little confused.... are those all of Jenny Guzzi? Is she with a different guy?

FriesianFury
02-07-2011, 12:51 AM
Im so freaken lost! Someone hand me map so I can find my way back!

Could there be a chance that she is using younger photos of her self in some of those photos. Cause one looks like she is early 20's http://s187.photobucket.com/albums/x...h.jpg&newest=1
then one Jaime posted looks like mid 30's since she has wrinkles and weight gain. oh hell never mind me. Im going back and re reading

hi_d_hi
02-07-2011, 01:25 AM
The pictures could have been taken anywhere at any time. She could have been on a trip, it could have been early summer in the area we don't know. We can't really go by them.

Could be she picked them off of a photo album somewhere.

hi_d_hi
02-07-2011, 01:34 AM
It could be there's another name floating around there, like maybe the real name, and all of these are names she got from searching around her area. I mean she did pull in the names of hobbyists to use in her endeavors.

If not it'd sure be interesting to hear how all these are connected and who is the mastermind.

hi_d_hi
02-07-2011, 01:36 AM
I wasn't saying I believed what she said, I was just stating that I miss-read the post i was referring to, and wanted to correct information.

Sorry I meant you as general, not you.

Drakkarstudios
02-07-2011, 02:32 AM
Is it just me or does the Michelle photo look like it could be Jenny?

NatalieK
02-07-2011, 03:14 AM
Oh come on, where'd everybody go??? Grass is purple.

We're talking about the grass again? Son of a...

Drakkarstudios
02-07-2011, 03:24 AM
We're talking about the grass again? Son of a...

Son of sod!!!!

irvinearts
02-07-2011, 04:13 AM
The thing about calling for this person to be put in jail is that so far, 3 people have said she owes them a total of $365. That's not even enough money to be more than misdemeanor theft.

Where are all the people she's supposedly defrauded? Would they please come out and post on this thread? For such a huge career of falsifying identities, she seems not to have been very successful in her take.

Alliecat, the first post is just a list of what is known, there are no doubt more people out there who have been affected. Some were paid back, others weren't, some are Blabbers, others aren't, so not all will be on here talking and if you add what she did owe just to the five international buyers last summer it amounts to @ $800. Averaged out over 4/5 years from when JD disappeared, that sum starts to get a little more criminal. Maybe it isn't a jail case, but it certainly warrants making the authorities aware of the situation, given previous wrongdoings, plus to stop anymore activity on this basis. In my opinion MMD was fraudulent and not just with money (read the MMD thread to get the picture) - it was really only through shouting so loud that I was refunded.

There is no doubting however that the addresses used equal a trio of relations not legitimised on here by the three parties; that in itself should ring alarm bells. Genuine buyers shouldn't have to go through all the slog of having to chase for months with no probable resolution, just to provide 'kicks' for the offending parties?

As for the rest of you....:hammer :bigeyes :bigeyes.....yucca plants, hairdos and hedgerows.....
:roflmao:roflmao:laff....I'm tuning in to CSI Blab more often, far more entertaining than Horatio.....

Alliecat
02-07-2011, 05:08 AM
Alliecat, the first post is just a list of what is known, there are no doubt more people out there who have been affected. Some were paid back, others weren't, some are Blabbers, others aren't, so not all will be on here talking and if you add what she did owe just to the five international buyers last summer it amounts to @ $800. Averaged out over 4/5 years from when JD disappeared, that sum starts to get a little more criminal. Maybe it isn't a jail case, but it certainly warrants making the authorities aware of the situation, given previous wrongdoings, plus to stop anymore activity on this basis. In my opinion MMD was fraudulent and not just with money (read the MMD thread to get the picture) - it was really only through shouting so loud that I was refunded.

There is no doubting however that the addresses used equal a trio of relations not legitimised on here by the three parties; that in itself should ring alarm bells. Genuine buyers shouldn't have to go through all the slog of having to chase for months with no probable resolution, just to provide 'kicks' for the offending parties?

As for the rest of you....:hammer :bigeyes :bigeyes.....yucca plants, hairdos and hedgerows.....
:roflmao:roflmao:laff....I'm tuning in to CSI Blab more often, far more entertaining than Horatio.....

I'm just saying, there's been a ton of discussion about this lady's identity and very little discussion about WHAT SHE DID WRONG. Shouldn't someone who is such a criminal mastermind have actual victims somewhere? Would some of them please post? And if you guys want to file charges you need to know WHAT SHE DID.

Nightmare
02-07-2011, 05:27 AM
Okay, let's see if I have this straight:

Jenn Davis (I do remember Bayba) had a sterling reputation, had some medical and personal problems and ended up disappearing thus ripping some folks off for some $$$ models paid for but never provided. Right?

Michelle sold $$$ models she didn't have, had some medical problems but has been slowly making good on those models paid for but not provided by way of sweet Sara who is selling her horses and remitting payments to those owed. Right?

Jules, who is not in a transaction with anyone, has been fighting publically with what may be her alter ego, Jenny, who she has paid for $$$ models that have not been provided. Right?

And any or all of these may be the same person. Right?

Or am I totally discombobulated?


Mind boggling to say the very least :spacey

fatvole
02-07-2011, 05:37 AM
I'm just saying, there's been a ton of discussion about this lady's identity and very little discussion about WHAT SHE DID WRONG. Shouldn't someone who is such a criminal mastermind have actual victims somewhere? Would some of them please post? And if you guys want to file charges you need to know WHAT SHE DID.

Totally on another thread -- scroll down through TTB to "Defrauded by MMD" comes up. It's quite voluminous!

fatvole
02-07-2011, 05:39 AM
Also something interesting FWIW only. Went over onto the "live horse training/showing" board post-fight amongst LI-NY showers (referenced in the first post on this thread).

Hum. Interesting.

"Charon" - one of the alleged aliases involved here.
"Sharyn" - Allegedly JG's mom (over on the LI live horse training/showing board fight).

Just thought that was interesting. May or may not mean anything.

Liz
02-07-2011, 07:29 AM
OK I read all the way through this to see if anyone else noticed what I did about the Kangaroo shoes photos. The photo of the feet has black pants on and the shoes are a deeper pink. So I don't think they were taken at the same time, if they are in fact even the same person (I don't think that is Jenn).

I purchased a Medallion off Jenn Davis (Bayba) when she was selling off all her models, if I remember correctly I think she had a few beautiful pieces finished by Jenn Danza. She ended up refunding me for the medallion because it was supposed to be unpainted but it had been previously painted and just painted white straight over the top.

NatalieK
02-07-2011, 11:29 AM
:roflmao:roflmao:laff....I'm tuning in to CSI Blab more often, far more entertaining than Horatio.....

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_ofKWBvj7zcc/TVAdvFoDclI/AAAAAAAAJN8/k0G93_OcMI0/csi-logo%5B1%5D.jpg

mumtaz
02-07-2011, 11:39 AM
LMAO, Natalie! That's epic! :D

ravensgate
02-07-2011, 12:00 PM
I'm just saying, there's been a ton of discussion about this lady's identity and very little discussion about WHAT SHE DID WRONG. Shouldn't someone who is such a criminal mastermind have actual victims somewhere? Would some of them please post? And if you guys want to file charges you need to know WHAT SHE DID.

There are many threads on Blab as has been stated. Just look up the names. This thread was not for that particular discussion of who owed who what (though I'm pretty sure it's been covered anyway, guess you missed those posts), it was to put pieces of the puzzle together. And argue about yucca plants, grass, shoes, hairdos, teeth, etc.

texxdog
02-07-2011, 12:24 PM
Ooooo. My head hurts thinking about all of this.

irvinearts
02-07-2011, 12:26 PM
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_ofKWBvj7zcc/TVAdvFoDclI/AAAAAAAAJN8/k0G93_OcMI0/csi-logo%5B1%5D.jpg

:roflmao:popcorn:popcorn

Episode 13 'Identigate'

irvinearts
02-07-2011, 12:37 PM
Seriously though, it may be a slog, but it is worth referencing all the threads concerned as Jaime said. I for one certainly wouldn't be critical without just cause (just not my ethic to lambast unless really necessary) and it has taken effort on many peoples' behalf to actually gather all the information gleamed here.

That info is for your benefit to then proceed with as you wish, hopefully with caution :)