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annimac
01-05-2012, 10:30 PM
Why is it that after you pay an artist for painting, they disappear? I have two right now - two separate artists, one that was supposed to have my horse done in July/Aug, the other within a couple of months (which would be now).

No updates, etc. from the first one. Multiple emails, no response, finally reponses with varying reasons why they haven't started, etc.

Email second artists, no response to several messages.

I know we are in the holiday season, etc. But how hard is it to send a quick email about where they are at in the process, and when you can expect the horse? Or even a message saying I am still around, and still have your horses!

Is this typical behaviour? How long past the "due" date due you wait before requesting the horse back?

Lizzard
01-05-2012, 10:38 PM
Ha! I am and have been encountering a similar problem (I wonder if its the same artist). I sent her four bodies to paint in March, and I JUST NOW got back two, and she's not anywhere near done with the other two. And I can never get a response or update unless I harass the sh*t out of her. And actually, one of those bodies is getting painted for free on her end of a trade. I'm not sure I will ever see it. I know your frustration.

annimac
01-05-2012, 10:55 PM
Sorry, forgot to sign my name. Ann Leidig.

Latigo
01-05-2012, 11:17 PM
Well I can say the behavior isn't typical, in my experience. I have many artists I have become very close with after working with them. And I tend to use them over and over because of that.
However, lately I have had a few of those "no response" artists. And I agree it is terribly aggravating. Especially when it is nearing the date they say it was supposed to be completed and you haven't heard anything. How bad I want that artist to paint said horse determines how long I wait... Not sure how others do it.

mechanicaljen
01-05-2012, 11:20 PM
I've had nothing but excellent luck since my return to the hobby.......knock on wood!

RobinHoodFan
01-05-2012, 11:21 PM
I can totally understand the art taking a long time (unforeseen problems with the process, issues with the paint, running out of supplies, etc) BUT IMO, there should ALWAYS be contact and a response!! I would feel terrible if i told someone a custom would be done by a certain date and they contact me only to find i havent even started! I would NEVER do that or let it come to that! If i run into a problem or get backed up, my first priority would be to email my buyer letting them know the status and why it's taking so long. My consciense just doesn't let me ignore emails, I don't know how some people do it. The guilt would nag the crap out of me..

Choice
01-05-2012, 11:44 PM
Maybe it's not so much that they aren't getting the emails or skipping over them; but rather neglecting to look at their email very often. I could certainly see this with artists who may have separate studio and personal emails.
I try to keep two email accounts and give them both to people when I remember, that way they can maybe get me on one if not the other.

annimac
01-05-2012, 11:48 PM
Maybe it's not so much that they aren't getting the emails or skipping over them; but rather neglecting to look at their email very often. I could certainly see this with artists who may have separate studio and personal emails.
I try to keep two email accounts and give them both to people when I remember, that way they can maybe get me on one if not the other.

Okay, but what responsibility do you think is on the artist to contact the buyer/customer, if there is a delay? Are you pro-active, or is it up to the customer to "hound" you for information? I am asking out of curiosity- I know that posts/emails can seem confrontational. It is not meant that way at all. I am just inexperienced enough in this area to not know if I am reasonably irritated, or being impatient... My biggest concern is that my resin(s) are gone...

RivnRo
01-05-2012, 11:53 PM
The sad reality is this does happen, and has happened. I think many of us have vanished horses out there never to be seen or heard of again :(

It would be a good idea to try some different means of contact in case email prog is dumping your emails to trash (or at least to protect yourself from the. Using that as an excuse). Facebook, mail, blab and or a YO on MHSP are great ways to try and hunt someone down

LittleBlueBMW
01-06-2012, 01:16 AM
I paid off my slot in June and my horse has not been started. Big enough name that I think I am safe. Sorry about the loss.

Breyernut
01-06-2012, 07:53 AM
I've had this problem too. I didn't really bother me that it took longer to finish the model (in the end it took the artist more than 4 months instead of 4 weeks,as was promised), but I was really annoyed by the lack of communication. And meanwhile the same artist kept offering other finished customs for sale on several internet sites and posted messages on Blab regularly. I emailed the artist about this several times and all I wanted from her was to keep me updated on the progress. In the end the model was lovely and, like I said, I didn't really mind the delay. I just think it would have been good practice to at least answer my emails promptly and to let me know if and why there would be a delay.

I hope your models will turn out lovely in the end!

Ilse van Douwen

Lora
01-06-2012, 10:23 AM
sometimes with new artists it might be that they underestimate the time they will need to finish a piece and then they feel bad about it ...
sometimes it's the "customer can be happy if he/she gets anything painted by me and writing emails is just wasting my time" - attitude
sometimes artists really dissappear they come to the hobby , show they have talent in painting horses, accept commissions which for a while will be done , even communications may happen etc. but then that artists loose interest in the hobby thinks go downhill commissions take longer and longer, communications rarer and rarer until the work of the artist comes to a full stop and communication seize to exist and become impossible as every attempt of the customer gets ignored...
Also the sometimes endless patience and understanding for no-communications for hobby-artists (as soon as the artist works for Stone this patience and akzepting of no communication seam to be gone) is enabling artists to this behaviour ... they do see on boards that artist A gets away with this behaviour so they think they can too ...
But to me if you can't even communicate with a customer don't take commissions. Create your art and sell finished pieces.

Ulla Harneit

RobinHoodFan
01-06-2012, 10:35 AM
But to me if you can't even communicate with a customer don't take commissions. Create your art and sell finished pieces.

Ulla Harneit
:yes :agreed If you take commissions, you are making it personal...so your business practices need to be higher level. Just because something takes time to do doesn't mean the rules change from regular business practices. personally i think it's disrespectful for an artist to put sales pieces and personal pieces ahead of commissions. That buyer is COMMISSIONING you to do that piece...you cant just dilly dally and do it when you feel. You accepted the job, now do it. I work in freelance animation...same deal...i would NEVER put a personal film over a job. That's just unethical and bad business....that's how you don't get future jobs...

That said if you give a deadline, work your butt off but just cant get it done in time, CONTACT the buyer....dont wait and hope the buyer forgets about it...chances are, they're just going to get angrier with the passing time. It's not the buyer's job to email the seller, it's the artists job to email the buyer. Buyers are the one's paying for the service. If you can't provide that service, then do not take commissions. To not even have something started by the deadline time is infuriating...this seller HAD to know at a certain point in time that this would not get done...they should have immedately conatacted you at this point in time and let you know. Seeing if you wanted the horse back or to continue with the delay...i think alot of the time it has to do with selfishness and disrespect and they want the $$ so they'll keep it till they're done and you're forced to pay...it disgusts me when that's the case..poor, poor business ethics. :sigh

(All IMO and IME....)

FriesianFury
01-06-2012, 10:45 AM
:yes :agreed If you take commissions, you are making it personal...so your business practices need to be higher level. Just because something takes time to do doesn't mean the rules change from regular business practices. personally i think it's disrespectful for an artist to put sales pieces and personal pieces ahead of commissions. That buyer is COMMISSIONING you to do that piece...you cant just dilly dally and do it when you feel. You accepted the job, now do it. I work in freelance animation...same deal...i would NEVER put a personal film over a job. That's just unethical and bad business....that's how you don't get future jobs...

That said if you give a deadline, work your butt off but just cant get it done in time, CONTACT the buyer....dont wait and hope the buyer forgets about it...chances are, they're just going to get angrier with the passing time. It's not the buyer's job to email the seller, it's the artists job to email the buyer. Buyers are the one's paying for the service. If you can't provide that service, then do not take commissions. To not even have something started by the deadline time is infuriating...this seller HAD to know at a certain point in time that this would not get done...they should have immedately conatacted you at this point in time and let you know. Seeing if you wanted the horse back or to continue with the delay...i think alot of the time it has to do with selfishness and disrespect and they want the $$ so they'll keep it till they're done and you're forced to pay...it disgusts me when that's the case..poor, poor business ethics. :sigh

(All IMO and IME....)

:agreed

I always try to stay in contact with my costumers and always chat with them as a friend too in chat rooms, I like to build the friendship with them. It makes them feel better that I am not running off with there horse since I am not falling off the face of the earth and ignoring them. I always and I cant see why others cant get back to someone in one day with emails. I on the other hand dont get to many people that want a horse on a date, but the ones I did I had done on time.

RivnRo
01-06-2012, 10:47 AM
Care needs to be taken when judging an artist for finishing pieces "out of order". Very few artists can do things in assembly line fashion and attentions are easily stolen by the "muse" calling a person to something different.

That said... It doesn't excuse lack of contact

But know also it's why more and more artists are no longer accepting commissions.

Gilder
01-06-2012, 10:49 AM
Care needs to be taken when judging an artist for finishing pieces "out of order". Very few artists can do things in assembly line fashion and attentions are easily stolen by the "muse" calling a person to something different.

That said... It doesn't excuse lack of contact

But know also it's why more and more artists are no longer accepting commissions.

See, I always know where Shauna is... right here on Blab. :)

But, to seriously get back to the topic at hand: The key here is communication, no matter what happens.

Landshark
01-06-2012, 10:56 AM
Even with my illness I have had no problems reaching the artists I have been working with. Either name them here or PM me and I can let you know if I am dealing with them. I have had wonderful luck!

FriesianFury
01-06-2012, 11:16 AM
Care needs to be taken when judging an artist for finishing pieces "out of order". Very few artists can do things in assembly line fashion and attentions are easily stolen by the "muse" calling a person to something different.

That said... It doesn't excuse lack of contact

But know also it's why more and more artists are no longer accepting commissions.

We are always out of order ;). But yea I cant do horses in order I switch them around so I dont get burned out, so I agree with you here

smushybanana
01-06-2012, 11:18 AM
We are always out of order ;). But yea I cant do horses in order I switch them around so I dont get burned out, so I agree with you here

Not only this, but most of us work on several at a time so time isn't wasted waiting for layers to dry.

mechanicaljen
01-06-2012, 11:34 AM
Care needs to be taken when judging an artist for finishing pieces "out of order". Very few artists can do things in assembly line fashion and attentions are easily stolen by the "muse" calling a person to something different.

That said... It doesn't excuse lack of contact

But know also it's why more and more artists are no longer accepting commissions.

Yes, I can completely see where you are coming from. During my former stint in the hobby...I commissioned a well known artist and was given an approximate time of completion. That date flew by with little communication. Another year goes by. And another. I notice she's putting up "newly" finished pieces for sale. I inquire about mine. Little to no response.

Finally, she leaves the hobby. I don't get my model, or my money back.

It really bothered me, but I have not let her treatment of me color my opinion of other artists. We must avoid painting people with a broad brush.

LC Kiko
01-06-2012, 11:34 AM
I must say that in the past I've not been very good about being diligent with my commissions :/ But I ALWAYS communicate with the person, at least tell them "Hey I'm super busy between school/work/internship/life but I'm trying to get your horse(s) done". I always thank them for their patience, and most people have been very understanding with my hectic schedule and graduating college.

As for the other people you're dealing with, could it be that maybe they're embarrassed that they couldn't get things done in the time they said? There's not really any excuse for lack of communication, but its just a thought.

Kris Apelgren

RobinHoodFan
01-06-2012, 12:07 PM
Care needs to be taken when judging an artist for finishing pieces "out of order". Very few artists can do things in assembly line fashion and attentions are easily stolen by the "muse" calling a person to something different.

That said... It doesn't excuse lack of contact

But know also it's why more and more artists are no longer accepting commissions.

Lack of order and juggling more than one project is one thing...but when they're doing personal projects, posting dilly dally on blab, creating sales pieces while commissions haven't even been started...that's another.

Organization and prioritization is key in business.

But yes, It all has to do with good communication in the end.

RobinHoodFan
01-06-2012, 12:09 PM
We must avoid painting people with a broad brush. :thumbsup I like this quote :)

RivnRo
01-06-2012, 12:35 PM
Artists are rarely if ever business minded. However often "personal" projects etc can really help get the juices going without the pressure and if they become sales pieces so be it! Heck I have a commission here who refuses to speak to me and without communication from the piece itself there is nothing to be gained by forcing myself to start

RobinHoodFan
01-06-2012, 12:40 PM
Artists are rarely if ever business minded. However often "personal" projects etc can really help get the juices going without the pressure and if they become sales pieces so be it! Heck I have a commission here who refuses to speak to me and without communication from the piece itself there is nothing to be gained by forcing myself to start

Then you Fail...

Perhaps you should stop playing with all that unicorn pee and get back to work ;)

RivnRo
01-06-2012, 12:41 PM
Without the pee there is no work!

RobinHoodFan
01-06-2012, 12:41 PM
(haha just kidding of course :grin)

RobinHoodFan
01-06-2012, 12:47 PM
(haha just kidding of course :grin)

i see you posted at the exact same time as this...anyhoo..totally see what you're saying and speaking of artists in general, you are definitely right. I but you can always tell when someone is not giving 100%...(btw all my posts are in regards to the situation in the OP (deadline coming and going, no contact and it hasen't even been started), not towards artists in general...

So ya...you have to be reasonable with artists in that they cant work on something straight through most of the time because it will burn them out and you're piece wont come out as good as it can be...but there's also the artist who needs to communicate these issues if the deadline is approaching.

Sweet Defense
01-06-2012, 01:44 PM
Sometimes personal projects are to try new methods that you don't want to try on a commission, at least not for the first time. I sometimes post on Blab as I'm letting problems tumble around in my mind, by the time I'm done, I've figured out the solution to the problem. I also get tired of prepping, sometimes I just need to paint. I have some horses I'm stripping right now, and sometimes I just have to take a break from the stripping and I need to do something different.

Lora
01-06-2012, 02:45 PM
I have commissioned some clothes from someone quit a long time ago, like months or years but I communicate with this person from time to time and she recently has send me pics of finished pieces so everything is OK. I think communicatiion is the main point that the artist emails the customer "Hey your piece takes a bit longer " and won't just act if the customer is herassing one if he/she asks about the piece. and of course there should be room for a bit of flexibility to create personal pieces or if three horses need the same base color to just paint all three together or whatever , it becomes a problem if it takes the artists years to even start the commissioned piece but the artists put out sales pieces on monthly bases from new molds...
I do think that painting commissions is one of the most difficult things to do for an artist and not everyone can do that because I do think that an artist who (officially) takes commissions should be able to paint a piece after someone elses idea (at least a lot of times) on a mold selected by someone else , should be organised enough to know how long a commission will take and best have the customer's piece for the shortest period of time in hand (it's a different if a customer has to wait a long time but still has the unpainted piece or if the artist has the unpainted Resin for a large amount of time without doing something with it. Artist can move , may has animals , different people over whatever) , be able to communicate , able to take critic ...

Ulla Harneit

FriesianFury
01-06-2012, 04:15 PM
Lack of order and juggling more than one project is one thing...but when they're doing personal projects, posting dilly dally on blab, creating sales pieces while commissions haven't even been started...that's another.

Organization and prioritization is key in business.

But yes, It all has to do with good communication in the end.

though I agree with some, but some I dont since things are different when I can work and goof off. I do blabbing or netting around in the day when I cant work on horses so I type on blab. I do from time to time work on a personal horse between orders cause it helps get the juice flowing or get something that I really want to do done before I loose the idea of it, or I might try something out on mine before trying it out on my customers, like I said rare since almost all my collection is almost but naked lol. But I have not done a sale piece (I dont think I have) before my costumers

FriesianFury
01-06-2012, 04:18 PM
But know also it's why more and more artists are no longer accepting commissions.

agreed, in my case I have had great customers but im still thinking about no longer taken on any more commissions cause of my slowness....its not fair for them.

Mary
01-06-2012, 04:30 PM
Is this typical behaviour? How long past the "due" date due you wait before requesting the horse back?
6 years. I mean, that's how long I waited - in just one instance.

I actually asked a number of times in the first 2-3 years. At first she responded, then she responded but talked about things other than the model, then she didn't respond any more. It was ridiculous of me to dither with it for 6 years.

When I finally got in touch with her to get the model back, forwarding a chain of emails that included our original agreement, she said she had forgotten about it and couldn't find the resin. She refunded everything plus the original purchase price of the resin.

Do not wait 6 years. ;) :)

BaitandSwitch
01-06-2012, 05:21 PM
Sometimes personal projects are to try new methods that you don't want to try on a commission, at least not for the first time.

......I also get tired of prepping, sometimes I just need to paint.

Yes, same here!

desertnightcreations
01-06-2012, 06:33 PM
Is this typical behaviour? How long past the "due" date due you wait before requesting the horse back?

IT is, unfortunately. I still have outstanding resins that I'm waiting on and it's been over a few years. You can wait as long as you feel like waiting and then ask for your horse back. It's your property.

Breyernut
01-06-2012, 06:40 PM
6 years. I mean, that's how long I waited - in just one instance

:jawdrop Wow.. Unbelievable..

desertnightcreations
01-06-2012, 06:44 PM
:jawdrop Wow.. Unbelievable..

I've been waiting at least that long.. probably longer.. But I keep reminding myself how cool the horse will be when he finally comes home and that helps me keep waiting.. and she is at least communicative with me..

jff0610
01-06-2012, 06:48 PM
6 years. I mean, that's how long I waited - in just one instance.

I actually asked a number of times in the first 2-3 years. At first she responded, then she responded but talked about things other than the model, then she didn't respond any more. It was ridiculous of me to dither with it for 6 years.

When I finally got in touch with her to get the model back, forwarding a chain of emails that included our original agreement, she said she had forgotten about it and couldn't find the resin. She refunded everything plus the original purchase price of the resin.

Do not wait 6 years. ;) :)

Wow! That's quite a long time, but at least you got your money back in the end :) I'm not sure how you could completely lose a resin though; they're too delicate to just throw in a box somewhere and that's quite an expensive thing to lose!

Mary
01-06-2012, 07:10 PM
Let me say that after Year 1, the rest has to be blamed on me. After that, the question was no longer why the big wait, but why I was putting up with it. I guess it wasn't important enough to me until I decided that it was. :)

Tifns
01-06-2012, 08:07 PM
agreed, in my case I have had great customers but im still thinking about no longer taken on any more commissions cause of my slowness....its not fair for them.


IT is, unfortunately. I still have outstanding resins that I'm waiting on and it's been over a few years. You can wait as long as you feel like waiting and then ask for your horse back. It's your property.

Ya I been waiting on at least one horse for over a year and a half. BUT as Desert Night Creations stated I, too, just keep telling myself how epic it will be. Plus it dont help that I just keep piling on work for her to do... :uh HA! LOVE YA SARA! BTW I got a box of medallions sitting here for you to prep and prime once I pay you off on the other 2 projects your working on for me! :uh And no I will not just send them on, pay you off first then they can go! Im trying to restrain myself here!

annimac
01-06-2012, 08:47 PM
Thanks for all of the replies. I don't mind the missing of the deadlines so much. And I don't mind them doing other projects. It is just the lack of response. A quick email saying, sorry, been busy, but your horse is still here and in process or something. I am sure that it will work out in the end, at least I hope so! Sorry for the vent, too. I just needed to know if i was being too bratty by being a bit miffed...

RivnRo
01-06-2012, 08:48 PM
Failure to communicate chafes my waffles

texxdog
01-06-2012, 09:31 PM
You said waffles...

RobinHoodFan
01-06-2012, 09:44 PM
Thanks for all of the replies. I don't mind the missing of the deadlines so much. And I don't mind them doing other projects. It is just the lack of response. A quick email saying, sorry, been busy, but your horse is still here and in process or something. I am sure that it will work out in the end, at least I hope so! Sorry for the vent, too. I just needed to know if i was being too bratty by being a bit miffed...
Exactly :yes Communication, communication, communication.

RobinHoodFan
01-06-2012, 09:45 PM
Failure to communicate chafes my waffles
http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2009/12/28/129065235951345777.jpg

NoLineFarm
01-07-2012, 07:07 AM
Eat it. That is what I had to do. It's been 11 years. I don't think I am getting my model. And she was *almost* done last I heard...about 6 years ago...

Thankfully this is not typical but I don't commission horses out without a lot of trepidation. Have only done it twice since. I can't afford to throw away money and models like that.

Mary
01-07-2012, 09:24 AM
Hate to say this, but it's like anything else in the hobby -- the customers will get what they will put up with. It is unfortunate that many people will go to the lowest acceptable standard, whatever that is, rather than give themselves their own set of principals. When customers start putting their foot down, and paying only for performance, *and* yellow/red lighting artists that go way past reasonable timeframes, then some artists will have to change how they take in work. But most customers don't do that.

My thing is that if an artist accepts money for the work up front, and then doesn't deliver for years, long, long after any timeframe they themselves gave, that is poor business ethics. The money they accepted is probably long ago spent by the time they deliver the work it was intended to pay for. And it does create a feeling among many hobbyists that it is best not to send work out to an artist if they don't already know their usual timeframes. And that makes it hard for new artists getting started, and artists that pace themselves and don't take so many commissions at a time.

SylvanTrails
01-07-2012, 09:39 AM
Wow! That's quite a long time, but at least you got your money back in the end :) I'm not sure how you could completely lose a resin though; they're too delicate to just throw in a box somewhere and that's quite an expensive thing to lose!

I had one I sent of to a "prepper", who then dropped off the face of the earth right after I sent my resin to be prepped. Said person briefly re-surfaced to theoretically rejoin the hobby, I asked where my horse was, they said they never got it. They offered something in compensation, I accepted. A year or so later, when they ultimately decided to leave the hobby and liquidated their collection, I am glancing through eBay for the first time in a long while and, lo and behold, there is MY resin. Yes, I knew it was MINE because it had some customizing done that none of the others had done. Never did get the horse back, and never did get the COA to the buyer.

eta: contacted the "prepper" through eBay to let them know they had my horse...they never responded to my email.

RobinHoodFan
01-07-2012, 10:28 AM
Hate to say this, but it's like anything else in the hobby -- the customers will get what they will put up with. It is unfortunate that many people will go to the lowest acceptable standard, whatever that is, rather than give themselves their own set of principals. When customers start putting their foot down, and paying only for performance, *and* yellow/red lighting artists that go way past reasonable timeframes, then some artists will have to change how they take in work. But most customers don't do that.

My thing is that if an artist accepts money for the work up front, and then doesn't deliver for years, long, long after any timeframe they themselves gave, that is poor business ethics. The money they accepted is probably long ago spent by the time they deliver the work it was intended to pay for. And it does create a feeling among many hobbyists that it is best not to send work out to an artist if they don't already know their usual timeframes. And that makes it hard for new artists getting started, and artists that pace themselves and don't take so many commissions at a time.

:thumbsup Well said!

annimac
01-08-2012, 09:39 PM
Just wanted to update- since original post, artist 1 has responded to emails, and indicates horse in progress, and artist 2, although no response to email, has updated website to show status, and is prepped/ready for paint. It hasn't been years on either piece, so I feel much better, after reading the other posts!