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View Full Version : Holy Hill - Terms About Paypal Fees??



RobinHoodFan
01-19-2012, 09:23 AM
Anyone deal with Holly Hill? I've only found 2 greens as a buyer on MHHR but none as a seller. Couldn't find her here on blab either.

I'm interested in the DVD's she has for sale on MH$P but her terms state:

When paying with PayPal please send the payment as a gift. This prevents them from taking a small fee out of the total cost. If you donít want to send it as a gift please send an extra 0.5 per $1 to cover costs.I also dont like sellers who say they're not responsible if the buyer doesn't pay insurance...it's not MY (the buyer's) responsibility that the package gets to me ...it's the sellers.

Anyway, all of this just does not sit well with me. First off, it's against Paypal terms and she can be reported for that...and second it just smells of selling and shipping inexperience to me.

I'm pretty bummed about it too. I dont really want to have to think about something like that in a transaction. I just want to send my $$ or pay an invoice properly, and that's that...no second guessing if they're going to come back and say pay my fees or no go and hold my $$ hostage. Just don't wanna deal with it/stress about it. I do understand putting those terms in your listings sometimes when you're "burned" alot. But circumventing merchant fees does not sit well with me.

I really wanna add the Danielle Feldman DVDs to my collection of knowledge but at $25ea I cant afford as many as I'd like. Holly has a really great deal right now but for the nagging feeling about the terms there..I may just end up getting them from Danielle herself in the end. Would feel better supporting the artist herself anyway..I just wont be able to get them all at once though :sigh

So anyway, just a minor vent and wondering if anyone has bought from her and how it went. If you're on here Holly :hello "Hi" No hard feelings...just trying to do some research.

mobyus
01-19-2012, 09:54 AM
I'm afraid I've never dealt with Holly and can't give feedback, but I personally won't buy from someone who expects me to pay their fees.

Latigo
01-19-2012, 09:56 AM
I've never bought from her. But recently I've backed out of several purchases because the seller has hit me with "You pay the fees." It's getting very annoying. I've given in once because I really wanted the item. Otherwise I try not to buy from people who do that.

BreyerBuyer415
01-19-2012, 10:01 AM
I've never bought from her. But recently I've backed out of several purchases because the seller has hit me with "You pay the fees." It's getting very annoying. I've given in once because I really wanted the item. Otherwise I try not to buy from people who do that.

:yeahthat I hate those fees! I also hate when I (as the buyer) am made to pay them. I've found that if you send it through the Payment Owed option, it doesn't tack on any fees. That's the way I go now. :)

telepwen
01-19-2012, 10:14 AM
:yeahthat I hate those fees! I also hate when I (as the buyer) am made to pay them. I've found that if you send it through the Payment Owed option, it doesn't tack on any fees. That's the way I go now. :)

It doesn't tack on any fees, but you don't get buyer's protection from PayPal. If the item never shows up, you have no recourse.

Lora
01-19-2012, 10:14 AM
Personal Payment owed is also against Pay Pal terms if you use it to buy models , also all the send money without fees options will not protect you if the seller never sends the item.
I have seen an increasing amount of sellers telling buyers to add a fee if paying by Pay Pal on MH$P it's still cheaper than sending money order for me as a buyer ... I could report those sellers but I'd hardly ever do report anyone , would have to had really harm me ... I can decide if I want the model enough to pay for the model, shipping and extra fees. I already have the disadvantage of living overseas , so miss out on a lot of bargains because seller won't ship to UK /Germany , I won't like to have another disadvantage because I pay with Pay Pal instead of money orders because of the Pay Pal fees...

Ulla Harneit

PolarVrtX
01-19-2012, 10:19 AM
It doesn't tack on any fees, but you don't get buyer's protection from PayPal. If the item never shows up, you have no recourse.

It does if you want to pay with a credit card and try to send a personal payment. (I had this happen with a real personal payment that I needed to fund with a CC).

Anyway, I totally agree. I have backed out of deals where the seller tried to tack on the fees after I'd agreed to buy the item. "Oh, if you want to use PayPal you have to add an extra 3%" No thanks!! If they say it up front in the ad, I'm definitely not interested. I admit I have caved on one or two occasions when I really wanted the item and it wasn't worth the extra $1 for the hassle, but it definitely rubs me the wrong way.

BreyerBuyer415
01-19-2012, 10:25 AM
It does if you want to pay with a credit card and try to send a personal payment. (I had this happen with a real personal payment that I needed to fund with a CC).

Anyway, I totally agree. I have backed out of deals where the seller tried to tack on the fees after I'd agreed to buy the item. "Oh, if you want to use PayPal you have to add an extra 3%" No thanks!! If they say it up front in the ad, I'm definitely not interested. I admit I have caved on one or two occasions when I really wanted the item and it wasn't worth the extra $1 for the hassle, but it definitely rubs me the wrong way.

I do use my card and send it via Personal Payment. If it's not the right thing, I won't do it. I am still learning about how Paypal works. Thank you for letting me know! I'll definitely remember. :)

Latigo
01-19-2012, 10:39 AM
I am pretty sure I heard once if you abuse the "Payment Owed" option you could have your paypal account removed/suspended. Not sure how correct that is. Truly you aren't supposed to use it if you are buying goods though.

Yes, I have also decided not to contact people on MH$P about things I like because it's stated there I have to pay fees. It really "irks" me. There is a resin right now on MH$P I'd love to own. But I don't want to pay the sellers $10 paypal fee just to own it..

BreyerBuyer415
01-19-2012, 10:44 AM
OK, I won't be using that then! Thanks y'all for warning me! I honestly had no idea. At least I was warned before I got in trouble..

RobinHoodFan
01-19-2012, 11:09 AM
I am pretty sure I heard once if you abuse the "Payment Owed" option you could have your paypal account removed/suspended. Not sure how correct that is. Truly you aren't supposed to use it if you are buying goods though.

Yes, I have also decided not to contact people on MH$P about things I like because it's stated there I have to pay fees. It really "irks" me. There is a resin right now on MH$P I'd love to own. But I don't want to pay the sellers $10 paypal fee just to own it..

Yea..that's kinda what it is...the amount (what like $2.50 extra?) doesnt bother me...it's the principal of the thing and it just rubs me the wrong way reading that

BreyerBuyer415
01-19-2012, 11:15 AM
OK, can y'all clarify something for me? When you say it's not right to use the Payment Owed option to purchase something, is it with everything, or mainly if I were to buy an item off ebay (for example)? Really the only thing I've used it for is to pay off some horses from people here. When we discussed payment, they never said anything about that option when we brought it up. I'm not trying to get anything started, I'm just a little confused. Thanks! Oh and sorry for derailing this thread..

RobinHoodFan
01-19-2012, 11:17 AM
:dunno you got me...i never even knew it existed...or never saw it b/c i always mark it as "goods" when sending an invoice to a buyer...or seller

PolarVrtX
01-19-2012, 11:21 AM
Yea..that's kinda what it is...the amount (what like $2.50 extra?) doesnt bother me...it's the principal of the thing and it just rubs me the wrong way reading that

That's the thing... I always feel pretty stupid cancelled a transaction over an extra $2.50, but it is the principal. They should feel silly asking for an extra $2.50, IMO.


OK, can y'all clarify something for me? When you say it's not right to use the Payment Owed option to purchase something, is it with everything, or mainly if I were to buy an item off ebay (for example)? Really the only thing I've used it for is to pay off some horses from people here. When we discussed payment, they never said anything about that option when we brought it up. I'm not trying to get anything started, I'm just a little confused. Thanks! Oh and sorry for derailing this thread..

Payment owed is not supposed to be used for purchases of any kind, be it goods, services, or time payments. It's meant for things like sending money to a friend, or paying back someone who loaned you money, etc.

BreyerBuyer415
01-19-2012, 11:25 AM
That's the thing... I always feel pretty stupid cancelled a transaction over an extra $2.50, but it is the principal. They should feel silly asking for an extra $2.50, IMO.



Payment owed is not supposed to be used for purchases of any kind, be it goods, services, or time payments. It's meant for things like sending money to a friend, or paying back someone who loaned you money, etc.

OK, thanks! I was pretty confused. Boy do I feel stupid now! :doh

mobyus
01-19-2012, 11:37 AM
Here's another thing I've wondered... if you send payment via Paypal to someone whose account is terminated for violating Paypal's terms of service (by charging fees to the buyer), would you have any recourse if they didn't send you the model you paid for? I know it's a "what if" scenario, but I'd be worried if that seller got terminated/suspended while we were in the middle of a transaction.

ravensgate
01-19-2012, 11:41 AM
OK, can y'all clarify something for me? When you say it's not right to use the Payment Owed option to purchase something, is it with everything, or mainly if I were to buy an item off ebay (for example)? Really the only thing I've used it for is to pay off some horses from people here. When we discussed payment, they never said anything about that option when we brought it up. I'm not trying to get anything started, I'm just a little confused. Thanks! Oh and sorry for derailing this thread..

You can NOT use it to buy goods or pay for services. PEriod. You can use it if you are say, paying your friend back for splitting a dinner, sending a family member payment, or even paying rent but you are not supposed to use it for goods or services. If you're buying a model from someone, that's a good.

onekindacowboy
01-19-2012, 11:42 AM
Here's another thing I've wondered... if you send payment via Paypal to someone whose account is terminated for violating Paypal's terms of service (by charging fees to the buyer), would you have any recourse if they didn't send you the model you paid for? I know it's a "what if" scenario, but I'd be worried if that seller got terminated/suspended while we were in the middle of a transaction.

Maybe but not without a fight. I suppose it would depend on how much was in the suspended account when they shut it down. I am sure it would take a long time. A couple of years ago I had a PayPal transaction reversed because the account it came from was suspended because of unusual activity. Luckily I don't think I had sent the item and that was that.
Very good point

telepwen
01-19-2012, 11:45 AM
Here's a question. Does your PayPal account go away after a long period of disuse?

Mom tried to send Sharon money for earrings, and found her account just... not there.

RivnRo
01-19-2012, 11:46 AM
All three times that I have said no sorry I won't pay your fees by sending this as payment owed as its against paypals terms of service..the seller has backed down. Want your fees? Tack it onto the selling price like every other retailer in the world.

BreyerBuyer415
01-19-2012, 11:47 AM
You can NOT use it to buy goods or pay for services. PEriod. You can use it if you are say, paying your friend back for splitting a dinner, sending a family member payment, or even paying rent but you are not supposed to use it for goods or services. If you're buying a model from someone, that's a good.

Thanks! I'll definitely be careful! This was an honest mistake and I was obviously ignorant! I'll be very careful from now on. Thanks ladies, and sorry if I caused any grief.

telepwen
01-19-2012, 11:49 AM
Thanks! I'll definitely be careful! This was an honest mistake and I was obviously ignorant! I'll be very careful from now on. Thanks ladies, and sorry if I caused any grief.

Nah, honest mistakes are fine. No one's blaming you for anything other than trying to be a nice person! :hugg

BreyerBuyer415
01-19-2012, 11:53 AM
Nah, honest mistakes are fine. No one's blaming you for anything other than trying to be a nice person! :hugg

Thanks! The last thing I ever want is to cause problems. I appreciate you guys helping this gal out. :hugg I will be super careful from now on! :)

JamieD
01-19-2012, 12:23 PM
:yeahthat I hate those fees! I also hate when I (as the buyer) am made to pay them. I've found that if you send it through the Payment Owed option, it doesn't tack on any fees. That's the way I go now. :)

That's only if you pay with a PayPal balance or your bank account. If you pay with your PP CC you get to pick who gets the fee.

JamieD

FriesianFury
01-19-2012, 01:02 PM
I've never bought from her. But recently I've backed out of several purchases because the seller has hit me with "You pay the fees." It's getting very annoying. I've given in once because I really wanted the item. Otherwise I try not to buy from people who do that.

:yeahthat

The only time I payed for the fee was on one horse and thats cause he was a great price and hard to find so I ate the fees. Other then that I turn my noise up and walk away from anyone else that does this. You should NEVER send payment as a gift cause if it goes south you cant file a dispute to get your money back. I also think the seller needs to know that its not ok to ask there buyer to pay the paypal fee's cause it breaks the rule for paypal.

muggyscugglemeyer
01-19-2012, 01:21 PM
I may be just blowing hot air, but I think Paypal could cause trouble for the owner of MH$P if they knew that alot of sellers on the site were bypassing fees. I know MH$P doesn't have the ebay/Paypal relationship, and it's fine for sellers to accept checks and money orders there. If Paypal started nosing around and giving Carrie a hard time about all the fee circumvention by sellers...who knows?

Margaret Loesch

RobinHoodFan
01-19-2012, 01:35 PM
i dont think that MHSP is held responsible since each seller is responsible for their own terms...(i believe it says so at the bottom of every listing)...worst case the owner will be forced to terminate the violators accts if they don't take those terms down due to a cease and desist from paypal....(or paypal can terminate said accounts themselves since it is a violation of PAYPAL rules not MH$P...and MH$P is not "promoting" the violation of those fees)

If that were the case, why didn't paypal shut down eBay? You know how many violators there were/are on there? Or anywhere for that matter...it is the user of paypal who is violating the terms regardless of the vessel they choose to do it from.

i encountered a similar thing when i found my company name being used on etsy by a person selling similar items...had to send a cease and desist to etsy who in turn made the seller change the name...it could happen again since etsy does not control the names...it's up to me (the registered copyright owner) to protect my copyright by constantly checking and seeking out violators.

Sweet Defense
01-19-2012, 01:54 PM
I've offered to pay fees if people only want to take money orders. For me, it's cheaper than standing in line at the post office. Hate it, but in those cases, I really wanted the horse.

I've only asked people to use personal when I fronted money for shipping a group gift. Figured that was safe.

ravensgate
01-19-2012, 03:00 PM
i dont think that MHSP is held responsible since each seller is responsible for their own terms...(i believe it says so at the bottom of every listing)...worst case the owner will be forced to terminate the violators accts if they don't take those terms down due to a cease and desist from paypal....(or paypal can terminate said accounts themselves since it is a violation of PAYPAL rules not MH$P...and MH$P is not "promoting" the violation of those fees)

If that were the case, why didn't paypal shut down eBay? You know how many violators there were/are on there? Or anywhere for that matter...it is the user of paypal who is violating the terms regardless of the vessel they choose to do it from.

i encountered a similar thing when i found my company name being used on etsy by a person selling similar items...had to send a cease and desist to etsy who in turn made the seller change the name...it could happen again since etsy does not control the names...it's up to me (the registered copyright owner) to protect my copyright by constantly checking and seeking out violators.

Because eBay owns PayPal.

RobinHoodFan
01-19-2012, 03:15 PM
Because eBay owns PayPal.

yes..but i meant BEFORE that happened...that's fairly recent....(i knew someone was gunna say that :haha) there were MANY years they were separate..at least more separate that they were now...either way..you'd have heard more about paypal "shutting down" other sites if it was common....

RobinHoodFan
01-19-2012, 03:32 PM
Plus..what about vendors who charge a minimum on charge purchases? That makes me so POed every time i see that. Same deal..they dont want to pay their merchant fees on low dollar purchases so they force people to buy a certain amount so the fees are a smaller percentage of that purchase. They go against their merchant TOS in order to make more profit. I call places out on this all the time. Usually they just cower in the corner b/c they know it's wrong and they take my cc. The only defense i ever got from someone was "everyone does it so it's fine, there's nothing wrong with it" ...rrrriiiiggghhtt...it's just cuz no one has reported you for it yet! If everyone else jumped off a bridge, would you?

Now, i'm not talking about little craft fairs and small town mom/pop shops (even though it's still wrong)....but....i'm in NY and its very common to see this in Manhattan...really? do you KNOW how much consumer traffic you get in manhattan?! I hardly ever carry cash on me...at least never more thatn $20-30 for emergencies so running into places like this really annoys me..especially when i wait on line get to the register and they say $10 minimum...really?! I just want to buy my $8 overpriced panini sandwich and have my lunch. Being a business owner with a merchant account, i know alot more about what it entails and what kind of fees there are to take certain CC's etc....they're breaking this rule for a whopping 35-50 cents per transaction..:rolleyes

I always cover any fee costs in my product pricing! I have a whole excel sheet that incorporates packaging costs and merchant fees in order to properly price my items for a decent profit. Sometimes my profit % does suffer from the fees...but i take the hit b/c happy customers mean better business. People are just lazy i guess and instead of working out a good system for pricing their items, they feel they should put the stress on the buyer to worry about and be inconvenienced by these fees.

sorry for the rant....these things just really rub me the wrong way!

Lora
01-19-2012, 03:32 PM
How can Pay Pal shut any side down ? They can shut down Acccounts on their side and they could use MH$P to find accounts where people are violating their terms but telling an independent side to shut down, because people post on it that if you buy from them they have to pay Pay Pal fees ? Don't think so. Pay Pal is not the government those sellers are violating against Pay Pal rules not against any law. and if they violate against laws it's the government who could shut them down , if at all...

Ulla Harneit

RobinHoodFan
01-19-2012, 03:36 PM
How can Pay Pal shut any side down ? They can shut down Acccounts on their side and they could use MH$P to find accounts where people are violating their terms but telling an independent side to shut down, because people post on it that if you buy from them they have to pay Pay Pal fees ? Don't think so. Pay Pal is not the government those sellers are violating against Pay Pal rules not against any law. and if they violate against laws it's the government who could shut them down , if at all...

Ulla Harneit
:yeahthat Thats what i meant to convey in my previous post :lol You said it better ;)

ravensgate
01-19-2012, 03:41 PM
yes..but i meant BEFORE that happened...that's fairly recent....(i knew someone was gunna say that :haha) there were MANY years they were separate..at least more separate that they were now...either way..you'd have heard more about paypal "shutting down" other sites if it was common....

No eBay already owned PayPal when they implemented the personal tab.

PolarVrtX
01-19-2012, 03:50 PM
Now, i'm not talking about little craft fairs and small town mom/pop shops (even though it's still wrong)....but....i'm in NY and its very common to see this in Manhattan...really? do you KNOW how much consumer traffic you get in manhattan?! I hardly ever carry cash on me...at least never more thatn $20-30 for emergencies so running into places like this really annoys me..especially when i wait on line get to the register and they say $10 minimum...really?! I just want to buy my $8 overpriced panini sandwich and have my lunch. Being a business owner with a merchant account, i know alot more about what it entails and what kind of fees there are to take certain CC's etc....they're breaking this rule for a whopping 35-50 cents per transaction..:rolleyes

Huh! I didn't know there was actually a rule against that. I run in to it ALL the time (I work in Stamford). Most places will not let you charge your lunch because they have a $15 minimum. I also never seem to have cash, so it's annoying :lol

ravensgate
01-19-2012, 03:53 PM
eBay bought PayPal in 2002. The personal payment tab was only created I think about 3 years ago. Sorry I'm on my phone or I'd be doing a better quoting job:haha

RobinHoodFan
01-19-2012, 04:02 PM
personal payment tab? Like send money tab? They always had that (at least as long as I can remember..i think)

Er...iz confused....i just meant in general as a response to paypal shutting down MH$P cuz of people violating paypal terms...although Lora said it better than I did

(and holy crap..it's been 10 years already since eBay bought paypal?)

RobinHoodFan
01-19-2012, 04:06 PM
Huh! I didn't know there was actually a rule against that. I run in to it ALL the time (I work in Stamford). Most places will not let you charge your lunch because they have a $15 minimum. I also never seem to have cash, so it's annoying :lol

yup...they do it b/c they dont want to pay the merchant transaction fee on a small dollar purchase..

for example..whenever i accept a credit card for my retail business, my CC merchant (which also happens to be paypal) takes a non-refundable .35 per transaction (i think amex is more) plus the regular paypal fees and monthly fees to hold a merchant account. Sooo $0.35 on a $5 purchase is a higher percentage of my profit as opposed to $0.35 on a $10 order. The other % of the order total fees are refundable if i issue a refund for a return..but that per transaction fee is not.

Other CC merchants are going to have different terms and fees...but they all have fees which is what these vendors are trying to play with.

onekindacowboy
01-19-2012, 04:20 PM
But PayPal has always had fees and even in the beginning there were vendors who added a surcharge for using PayPal as a payment option for their eBay auctions. I do not know if it was against PayPal TOS then or not but I assume it was as RobinHoodFan pointed out merchants are the ones who pay fees for other financial transactions.

Stumbleine
01-19-2012, 04:41 PM
Even if I really want a model, if I see in the add that I'm supposed to tack on extra for paypal fees, I won't even inquire. It makes me that mad.

I'm sorry, but I do freakin' pre paid shipping, and sometimes that bites me in the butt and I have to pay a few bucks more than I thought, but I move on. So I get really mad when people are SO CHEAP that they can't eat their own paypal fees and instead nickel and dime me against the TOS.

ravensgate
01-19-2012, 05:11 PM
personal payment tab? Like send money tab? They always had that (at least as long as I can remember..i think)

Er...iz confused....i just meant in general as a response to paypal shutting down MH$P cuz of people violating paypal terms...although Lora said it better than I did

(and holy crap..it's been 10 years already since eBay bought paypal?)

No, there has always been the 'send money' tab. Do you know what the 'personal payment' tab is that we are talking about? You won't see it as a seller, you will see it when you send someone a payment (and through Paypal, not through Ebay). You have the option for 'goods, services, or Ebay items'. The personal tab is a separate tab that buyers have access to when they send a payment. You can send it for goods or services, OR you choose the personal tab which goes into 'Money owed, gift, etc'. That's what I thought we were discussing. You've got folks wanting either you to pay the paypal fees or use the person tab button. You aren't supposed to do either if you are selling goods as a seller or a buyer (as in, as a buyer you shouldn't be paying fees or using the personal tab for goods and services). Also, this is why Ebay is now taking a FVF on item plus shipping, because folks were rolling those fees into shipping costs. And it's because Ebay owns Paypal. And of course, your Ebay account can be suspended if they see anything in there that discusses the buyer paying Paypal fees. THAT'S against Ebay's User agreement. The folks doing either one of those are violating Paypal's User agreement. Their accounts can be shut down (and they have been, seen it on here and MHHR) for accepting personal tab payments (AFAIK it flags your account and they will start monitoring how many of those you get). As a buyer, the buyers account won't be the one in jeopardy, it's the recipient of the money.

RobinHoodFan
01-19-2012, 05:27 PM
oh..didn't know about that special tab...thought it was all part of the "send money" tab and what you select as the reason for money (i.e. goods, ebay item, services and whatever else there is) . Thanks for clearing that up..Great explination! :thumbsup

Amanda
01-19-2012, 05:31 PM
I would never ask a buyer to pay fees for paypal, yeah they suck, but its not like the buyer doesn't have to deal with it either (if they are a seller as well) if you are really worried about the fees, price the horse accordingly to perhaps cushion what paypal takes out (something i haven't done either) I will say however that some buyers have offered to add a bit extra to lessen the fees, which I appreciate :hugg

Back to Holly Hill - I haven't dealt with her personally, and I don't think iwould due to her terms :dunno

ravensgate
01-19-2012, 05:37 PM
oh..didn't know about that special tab...thought it was all part of the "send money" tab and what you select as the reason for money (i.e. goods, ebay item, services and whatever else there is) . Thanks for clearing that up..Great explination! :thumbsup

It IS part of the 'send money' selection. But you will have two tabs, the normal one for goods or services, or the 'Personal Payment' tab. By default when you go to send a payment it should take you to the 'Goods, services or Ebay Items' buttons, but right next to that is a tab to select 'personal payment'. I wish they would do away with it completely because people see 'money owed' and translate that to mean 'oh, well, I owe money for this item, that must be what I'm supposed to choose' when that's not what it's meant to be used for. Every time someone sends me a personal payment I refund it and make them send it to me for goods. Nobody is doing me any favors by doing that and I hate inconveniencing them but I will NOT risk my PP account. I try to put it on all of my ads (when I run stuff on MH$P) but sometimes I forget to put it in there, and EVERY time I forget to state 'do not use the personal tab, send payment for goods please' I always have someone do it. :hammer

Sweet Defense
01-19-2012, 05:42 PM
I do like it, I've used it for repaying people and for getting reimbursed, but it's rare. I don't love the idea of being repaid less for money I've loaned people so I like having the option. I wouldn't have a fit if it disappeared, but I have found it useful. Do hate it when people send it that way, makes me refund it and then they have to pay again - at least ask if you're going to do it.

RobinHoodFan
01-19-2012, 05:43 PM
oooooooooohhhhhhhh i see. How do you know it's a personal payment when it comes in? Do you just have to take note of the missing fees or does it tell you somewhere?

RobinHoodFan
01-19-2012, 05:44 PM
and BTW to avoid this, and other random payments sent for items i may not have, i always send invoices or ask to be invoiced.

RivnRo
01-19-2012, 05:48 PM
Next time I owe baker money....

ravensgate
01-19-2012, 06:04 PM
oooooooooohhhhhhhh i see. How do you know it's a personal payment when it comes in? Do you just have to take note of the missing fees or does it tell you somewhere?

When you get the notice you have received a payment there will be no address in the email to ship to (again, because of what it's supposed to be used for). HOWEVER, I've had about 3 instances even before the personal tab existed where I didn't get an address in the email. So my next step is to go to my PP account and check the details of the transaction. If there are no fees taken out, the sender has used the personal tab.

ravensgate
01-19-2012, 06:04 PM
Next time I owe baker money....

I think I'm gonna be owing YOU money, not the other way around!:grin

ravensgate
01-19-2012, 06:05 PM
and BTW to avoid this, and other random payments sent for items i may not have, i always send invoices or ask to be invoiced.

AFAIK if you send an invoice you can't request it as personal anyway, so I think that bypasses it. I haven't sent an invoice in a while so I could be wrong!

mechanicaljen
01-19-2012, 06:07 PM
I've had to backpedal on buying an item due to a seller wanting "personal" payment. Noooope.

RivnRo
01-19-2012, 06:16 PM
I think I'm gonna be owing YOU money, not the other way around!:grin

Only if you pay my fees...

Arabesque
01-19-2012, 07:01 PM
All three times that I have said no sorry I won't pay your fees by sending this as payment owed as its against paypals terms of service..the seller has backed down. Want your fees? Tack it onto the selling price like every other retailer in the world.

:yeahthat :agreed

If you want to "cheat" then do it the right way. Add in your extras to your asking prices and no one will probably know the difference. Going out of your way to ask a buyer to pay for your fees or trying to get out of it by doing the personal tab option are both illegal and traceable. Not worth the risk. :) Also, I know a lot of people sell as a hobby, but that's no reason to be unprofessional if you want to gain a good rep in the hobby. Asking people to pay fees and do personal tab payments is both cheap and unprofessional IMO.

ravensgate
01-19-2012, 07:23 PM
:yeahthat :agreed

If you want to "cheat" then do it the right way. Add in your extras to your asking prices and no one will probably know the difference. Going out of your way to ask a buyer to pay for your fees or trying to get out of it by doing the personal tab option are both illegal and traceable. Not worth the risk. :) Also, I know a lot of people sell as a hobby, but that's no reason to be unprofessional if you want to gain a good rep in the hobby. Asking people to pay fees and do personal tab payments is both cheap and unprofessional IMO.


Well, heck, the big thing to me is that it adds to the list of 'folks not to do business with'. So not only are these sellers losing potential business from prospective buyers but also from folks like me that see those terms while skimming ads. So they are losing more money than they may realize.

Arabesque
01-19-2012, 07:27 PM
Well, heck, the big thing to me is that it adds to the list of 'folks not to do business with'. So not only are these sellers losing potential business from prospective buyers but also from folks like me that see those terms while skimming ads. So they are losing more money than they may realize.

Exactly! I do the same thing. If I see that in an add I typically just choose not to deal with that person, even if I really like the item. What's unfortunate is I think there are a lot of newer sellers out there that see this in other ads and may not realize that it rubs people the wrong way or that it's against paypal's terms. Threads like this one are good because the more people that can be made aware of it the better I think. :)

ravensgate
01-19-2012, 07:51 PM
Only if you pay my fees...

:neener

RobinHoodFan
01-19-2012, 09:36 PM
When you get the notice you have received a payment there will be no address in the email to ship to (again, because of what it's supposed to be used for). HOWEVER, I've had about 3 instances even before the personal tab existed where I didn't get an address in the email. So my next step is to go to my PP account and check the details of the transaction. If there are no fees taken out, the sender has used the personal tab.

Ahhh..ok..haven't had anything like that yet :crossfingers But when i do, i'll know what happened!


AFAIK if you send an invoice you can't request it as personal anyway, so I think that bypasses it. I haven't sent an invoice in a while so I could be wrong!
:dunno No idea...i just click send invoice...type in the info, mark it for goods and send it on it's merry way....

RobinHoodFan
01-19-2012, 09:38 PM
Well, heck, the big thing to me is that it adds to the list of 'folks not to do business with'. So not only are these sellers losing potential business from prospective buyers but also from folks like me that see those terms while skimming ads. So they are losing more money than they may realize.
:yeahthat

Lora
01-20-2012, 05:25 AM
I use the personal payment tab to send money from my british bank account to my german bank account as HSBC does only seam to be able to send money to foreign bank accounts then I'm working but I have to get some money to my german bank account ... funny if I pay £ I still have to pay fees if I pay € I don't pay any fees, would hate it if Pay Pal would remove the personal tab option just because of some "stupid" people...
German Pay Pal has no personal tab option.
In the past seller could receive free money from Pay Pal as long they won't accept credit card-Pay Pal...

Ulla Harneit

Wixom Aficionado
01-20-2012, 06:08 AM
So far, I've had many buyers ask me to include a 3% fee for paypal. I always refused. They then backed down and took payment without the 3%. Must not have wanted to lose a sale over a few bucks? :dunno

I don't believe buyers should have to pay what sellers pay paypal to use their services. :dunno That's probably why Lot of sellers are willing to wait on money orders again.

Intothesunstudio
01-20-2012, 08:52 AM
I honestly don't get why people who sell assume someone else should pay their fees. If you sell and accept paypal, you accept the fees as the convenience of using paypal. It is not up to the buyer to pay the fees. It would be like going to walmart and them saying "Oh, you want to use a cc? You have to pay an extra $5 for that transaction." It is bad business. Don't like the fees? Accept checks and money orders.

I actually would like to know how gas stations are getting away with offering cheaper prices if you pay in cash compared to credit. I thought offering lower prices for not accepting a credit card was against credit card terms. :dunno

Personally I will not deal with people who expect the buyers to pay their fees. Perhaps some of these people are ignorant that they don't realize they can be shut down for making buyers pay fees and for accepting personal payments. That doesn't make it right.

I will NOT take personal payments. Have I used it before to pay someone else? Yes, when I borrowed money from my mom and accepted it when my boss sent money to me as a birthday gift. It clearly states in my terms that I will not accept personal payments and they will be refunded. That I accept the fees as part of accepting paypal. The convenience is well worth the meager amount they take out. I have refunded personal payments and lost a sale because of it once, but I'd rather lose a sale than lose my paypal account.

Gilder
01-20-2012, 09:01 AM
No, you're allowed to offer a cash discount, but you can't charge for the fees. Seems silly, doesn't it?

Now, here's a financial lesson: You all do realized we're paying for the credit card fees in places like Wal-Mart, restaurants, national chains, etc., right? 'Cause those places will not have two different prices, so they figure in their credit card fees in with their regular prices (pay attention those of you charging for fees -- like it or not, that's the way you should do things: figure in "cost of doing business" fees into your sale price), and everyone pays it whether you pay cash or not.

I read an article a while back about how credit cards/debit cards have totally changed the pricing structure of our economy. It was a really good article.

Lora
01-20-2012, 09:30 AM
I wonder why I allways have to pay more money if I pay my flight ticket with credit card instead of debit card and every type of payment cost fees... but then they make you pay extra for baggage as well but at least they have their geography right and land in Hamburg then they offer a flight to Hamburg and not in Lueback (which is 100km away of Hamburg and in a different state) and they are still cheaper and better than other airlines... .

Ulla Harneit

PolarVrtX
01-20-2012, 10:02 AM
Now, here's a financial lesson: You all do realized we're paying for the credit card fees in places like Wal-Mart, restaurants, national chains, etc., right? 'Cause those places will not have two different prices, so they figure in their credit card fees in with their regular prices (pay attention those of you charging for fees -- like it or not, that's the way you should do things: figure in "cost of doing business" fees into your sale price), and everyone pays it whether you pay cash or not.

And also remember, if you use your credit card wisely it can be to your benefit. Since most credit cards offer 1%-3% cash back, if you use your credit card and always pay it off every month (this is the important part) you are getting a better deal than using cash/debit. But, you really have to be diligent about paying it off every month or the interest will kill that.

Stacy
01-20-2012, 10:23 AM
And also remember, if you use your credit card wisely it can be to your benefit. Since most credit cards offer 1%-3% cash back, if you use your credit card and always pay it off every month (this is the important part) you are getting a better deal than using cash/debit. But, you really have to be diligent about paying it off every month or the interest will kill that.

This. I put everything on a card I get 3-5% cash back on and pay it every month. I received several hundred dollars in cash back last year.

ravensgate
01-20-2012, 12:39 PM
No, you're allowed to offer a cash discount, but you can't charge for the fees. Seems silly, doesn't it?



If you're talking about Paypal no you can't. You can not offer discounts for using a payment method other than paypal. Another User agreement thing. If you're talking about credit cards, never mind:)

ravensgate
01-20-2012, 12:45 PM
Just in case you were talking about that here ya go. You have to watch how this is worded. Basically says you can't offer a discount for using different methods of payment.

4.6 No Surcharges. You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as a payment method. You may charge a handling fee in connection with the sale of goods or services, as long as the handling fee does not operate as a surcharge and is not higher than the handling fee you charge for non-PayPal transactions.

User agreement is here

https://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/marketingweb?cmd=_render-content&content_ID=ua/UserAgreement_popup&locale.x=en_US#4.%20Receiving%20Money.

Gilder
01-20-2012, 01:15 PM
If you're talking about Paypal no you can't. You can not offer discounts for using a payment method other than paypal. Another User agreement thing. If you're talking about credit cards, never mind:)

Yeah, I was answering Corrie's question about the gas stations offering cash discounts. :)

Do gas stations take PayPal... yet?

RivnRo
01-20-2012, 01:17 PM
I don't think it will be long Cheryl..

Gilder
01-20-2012, 01:17 PM
PayPal is working on a mobil app.

RivnRo
01-20-2012, 01:18 PM
You mean the one I have and use all summer at the farmers market

Gilder
01-20-2012, 01:22 PM
Ah, I didn't realize it was that close to being used. Of course, I don't have a smart phone, so...

RivnRo
01-20-2012, 01:23 PM
Yup! Ridiculously convenient

ravensgate
01-20-2012, 01:25 PM
Yeah, I was answering Corrie's question about the gas stations offering cash discounts. :)

Do gas stations take PayPal... yet?

I thought I might have not linked posts together and misconstrued:yes Ah well, still good info to have for those that don't know I reckon.:)

Arabesque
01-21-2012, 07:17 PM
Do gas stations take PayPal... yet?

That's what the paypal debit card is for :)

Eviejean
01-21-2012, 08:21 PM
Anyone deal with Holly Hill? I've only found 2 greens as a buyer on MHHR but none as a seller. Couldn't find her here on blab either.

I'm interested in the DVD's she has for sale on MH$P but her terms state:
I also dont like sellers who say they're not responsible if the buyer doesn't pay insurance...it's not MY (the buyer's) responsibility that the package gets to me ...it's the sellers.

Anyway, all of this just does not sit well with me. First off, it's against Paypal terms and she can be reported for that...and second it just smells of selling and shipping inexperience to me.

I'm pretty bummed about it too. I dont really want to have to think about something like that in a transaction. I just want to send my $$ or pay an invoice properly, and that's that...no second guessing if they're going to come back and say pay my fees or no go and hold my $$ hostage. Just don't wanna deal with it/stress about it. I do understand putting those terms in your listings sometimes when you're "burned" alot. But circumventing merchant fees does not sit well with me.

I really wanna add the Danielle Feldman DVDs to my collection of knowledge but at $25ea I cant afford as many as I'd like. Holly has a really great deal right now but for the nagging feeling about the terms there..I may just end up getting them from Danielle herself in the end. Would feel better supporting the artist herself anyway..I just wont be able to get them all at once though :sigh

So anyway, just a minor vent and wondering if anyone has bought from her and how it went. If you're on here Holly :hello "Hi" No hard feelings...just trying to do some research.
Back to the OP question::toothy

It would be great if there were a way you could mention to Holly (or any of these sellers trying to charge Paypal fees) that she's circumventing PayPal TOS but I'm sure she'd just blow up at you. According to her summary, she's been a seller since 2007, which means she's obviously not a newbie, so she should know better....

Personally, I won't deal with a seller who tries to charge me the PayPal fees.

RivnRo
01-21-2012, 08:23 PM
There are a few big names in the hobby that charge it and know full well it's against the tos...

Eviejean
01-21-2012, 09:06 PM
There are a few big names in the hobby that charge it and know full well it's against the tos...
Well, That just sucks!!!

Krazee4Breyers
01-21-2012, 09:19 PM
I'm pretty sure I bought my CM Andy Pegasus from her... it was a while ago but I recognize the draft she has in one of her adds.

When I received him, he had 2 broken wing tips... and all she did for packing was newspaper of all things to use. He actually wasn't even wrapped up, just had bits of newspaper around him.

I emailed her a few times and never received an answer about the broken wing tips and really bad to "no" packing at all job she did!

All and all I didn't pay much for the model anyways and it didn't cost me much to get him all fixed up, but yeah she can lack in a few things in this hobby!

I was going to post reds for her on MHHR but I couldn't get into my account, and then life happened and I forgot to post. I guess I still should...

She kinda was a little flaky with the transaction as well. I told her I would buy him and before she even responded, she put the item as sold. I got a little worried and thought she had sold him to someone else. She eventually got back to me and said she was selling him to me. She also took a little while to ship too.

I personally would never buy from her again, based on her crappy packing job and sketchy communication.

ravensgate
01-21-2012, 09:25 PM
There are a few big names in the hobby that charge it and know full well it's against the tos...

Yeah we just won't go there. Those are the same that always say 'I can do what I wanna do and I can read those Paypal user agreements however I want to!' and apparently think ignorance is some sort of excuse when they twist the words of Paypal around. Yeah, we just won't go there.:angry

PixelPerfectStables
01-21-2012, 10:05 PM
I recently had a buyer send payment through PayPal for an item and I thought they must have checked the "Gift" option instead of the "Purchase" option...because when I looked at the table of fees the only options that have fees are Gift options. It deducted $1.17 from my sale. Now I'm not one to complain..I was just confused because I've never gotten any fees deducted from my account before. Makes me want to not keep any of my money in Paypal and only add funds when I really need to...

PixelPerfectStables
01-21-2012, 10:10 PM
Wait...do fees only exist if someone pays with "CC Paypal?"
I don't have a credit card, and I've always been kind of unclear if there is a difference between Credit Card PayPal and regular PayPal :dunno
If the fees are because of the CC thing, I'll just add that I can't accept CC PayPal.
I kinda thought you had to be a business to do that, anyway...am I right?

bronzino
01-21-2012, 10:11 PM
Now, here's a financial lesson: You all do realized we're paying for the credit card fees in places like Wal-Mart, restaurants, national chains, etc., right? 'Cause those places will not have two different prices, so they figure in their credit card fees in with their regular prices (pay attention those of you charging for fees -- like it or not, that's the way you should do things: figure in "cost of doing business" fees into your sale price), and everyone pays it whether you pay cash or not.

Exactly, and if sellers are paying any attention, that is exactly how they should be pricing models for sale on MH$P. It is not against Paypal's TOS to figure Paypal fees into your "set price" for the item. It is against Paypal's TOS to charge separately for it. So just figure out what your fees will be, add them to what you planned to charge for the model, and identify that as the "price" for the model without further comment.

The big LOL/aggravation for me? Why people seem to have such a hard time figuring that out, and insist on undertaking all these devices etc. that put them in direct violation of Paypal's rules. And then requiring the buyer to go along with this goofy scheme. And the #1 zinger-annoyance for me? After you commit to buy, you get the email informing you that you need to tack on more for the Paypal fees. That will get you a serious a**-chewing from me.

ravensgate
01-21-2012, 10:11 PM
I recently had a buyer send payment through PayPal for an item and I thought they must have checked the "Gift" option instead of the "Purchase" option...because when I looked at the table of fees the only options that have fees are Gift options. It deducted $1.17 from my sale. Now I'm not one to complain..I was just confused because I've never gotten any fees deducted from my account before. Makes me want to not keep any of my money in Paypal and only add funds when I really need to...

Do you have a personal account? You should have fees deducted regardless. Paypal isn't FREE. You pay to use the service. Maybe I'm misunderstanding. When someone pays you for goods or services you are charged 2.9% plus .30 per transaction (higher if International). The money should be deducted from the payment you receive, not your account per se (you won't ever see it come into your account, it's automatically deducted).

This is not directed at you in particular but as part of the discussion it boggles my mind why people think they are entitled to a service for free and shouldn't pay fees.

ravensgate
01-21-2012, 10:12 PM
That will get you a serious a**-chewing from me.

I would expect nothing less! :grin

bronzino
01-21-2012, 10:17 PM
I would expect nothing less! :grin

lol. I exaggerate heavily. The email usually sets out the terms as a demand, or a presumption, and *that* gets my goat more than anything. So the response is less "a**-chewing" than it is: "I will not do this. I wish you good fortune in selling your model." Basically, "buh-bye." It's amazing how fast that requirement goes away when a $300+ sale is in the offing.

ravensgate
01-21-2012, 10:22 PM
lol. I exaggerate heavily. The email usually sets out the terms as a demand, or a presumption, and *that* gets my goat more than anything. So the response is less "a**-chewing" than it is: "I will not do this. I wish you good fortune in selling your model." Basically, "buh-bye." It's amazing how fast that requirement goes away when a $300+ sale is in the offing.

:lol Well, ya know, they'll figure it out right? I always like to think 'hope those little fees were worth the whole sale to you!':yes

PixelPerfectStables
01-21-2012, 10:30 PM
Do you have a personal account? You should have fees deducted regardless. Paypal isn't FREE. You pay to use the service. Maybe I'm misunderstanding. When someone pays you for goods or services you are charged 2.9% plus .30 per transaction (higher if International). The money should be deducted from the payment you receive, not your account per se (you won't ever see it come into your account, it's automatically deducted).

This is not directed at you in particular but as part of the discussion it boggles my mind why people think they are entitled to a service for free and shouldn't pay fees.

...I don't remember paying anything for it, but it was a few months ago, and I haven't really used it that often. I always used my dad's paypal in the past for sales since I didn't have a separate bank account for my horses/fun money like I do now. He'd always just give me whatever I made from the sale and never mentioned fees so I just didn't really know about it. I thought fees were only associated with CC Paypal, which I don't have. :dunno Sorry for the major confusion/blonde moment here!

ravensgate
01-21-2012, 10:42 PM
...I don't remember paying anything for it, but it was a few months ago, and I haven't really used it that often. I always used my dad's paypal in the past for sales since I didn't have a separate bank account for my horses/fun money like I do now. He'd always just give me whatever I made from the sale and never mentioned fees so I just didn't really know about it. I thought fees were only associated with CC Paypal, which I don't have. :dunno Sorry for the major confusion/blonde moment here!

No, fees are associated with ANY payment. Unless you are on the personal account and can't accept credit cards. Though looking through Paypal the fees are the same regardless of the account you have. That may be new but you should be paying fees when you accept a payment regardless of how the person pays you. It's not a free service.

Sweet Defense
01-21-2012, 11:21 PM
Your dad is probably fronting the fees for any horses you sell. Sounds like a parent thing to do.

RobinHoodFan
01-22-2012, 08:46 AM
Your dad is probably fronting the fees for any horses you sell. Sounds like a parent thing to do.
Or he's just giving you the end balance after the fees are automatically taken out

Intothesunstudio
01-22-2012, 06:48 PM
This. I put everything on a card I get 3-5% cash back on and pay it every month. I received several hundred dollars in cash back last year.

Gee what great card are you using? I don't get that back on mine!

Working retail I do know every item helps pay for cc transactions, electricity, salting the parking lot, paying for the paychecks etc. It's being told the breakdown that makes people balk. Something about not seeing a fee added in is okay with us. Having it broken down freaks us out.

ie. I just bought Nickelback floor tickets in Hartford for a friend and I. Now this is PER ticket...$3 venue fee, $12.75 convenience fee and some other $3 fee added onto that for some other convenience fee! All added to the ticket price. I would rather have been told; Hey the ticket is $95 total. Not Tickets are $75 and when you checkout you find out an additional $20 was added that makes you want to rip your hair out! I know why they do it. They make you see, wow only $75 a ticket! And when you checkout you want the great tickets in your cart so bad you just pay all the fees!

It's similar with paypal. You want to charge someone the fee, put that in your price. Don't mention..hey yeah it's $20 with an extra $4 for paypal. Just say $24 plus shipping!

bronzino
01-22-2012, 06:50 PM
I would rather have been told; Hey the ticket with all fees is $95. Not Tickets are $75 and when you checkout you find out an additional $20 was added that makes you want to rip your hair out!

HONEST TO GOD, lol!! My cell phone bill is an extra $25 a month due to various "administrative charges, surcharges" etc. It makes me soooo crabby.

Stacy
01-22-2012, 06:54 PM
Gee what great card are you using? I don't get that back on mine!



Its an AMEX. I'd have to look up exactly what card it is :)

ETA: The catch of the card is you don't get those rates back until you hit a certain dollar amount for the year, but when you put everything on it, it adds up quickly :)

RivnRo
01-22-2012, 07:29 PM
And screw the retailer to the wall. Amex charges stores horrendous rates I want to say we were paying 16% to Amex vs the 4 and 5 to visa and MasterCard. We took the damn thing but posted no signs to the effect as we didn't want them if at all possible!
So ya if you get over their quota "they" can give it to you.. But really it's the retailers giving it to you.

Stacy
01-22-2012, 08:51 PM
And screw the retailer to the wall. Amex charges stores horrendous rates I want to say we were paying 16% to Amex vs the 4 and 5 to visa and MasterCard. We took the damn thing but posted no signs to the effect as we didn't want them if at all possible!
So ya if you get over their quota "they" can give it to you.. But really it's the retailers giving it to you.
Yeah I know but I won't save any money using a MC or Visa over an AMEX so why not at least get cash back?

RivnRo
01-22-2012, 08:54 PM
It is something to consider when trying to shop local and support local commerce :)

rbsmith
01-22-2012, 09:15 PM
My grandparents own a small business. Back in the day they accepted credit cards, but between the fee the company charged just to provide the credit machine AND the fees the CC companies charged them to appcet credit cards, they were literally LOSING money on their products. Needless to say, it's a cash or check only business now.

I was under the impression at one point that if you were paying someone with a PayPaly BALANCE, it would not charge the recipient any fees. I would have sworn that I had read that SOMEWHERE on PayPal's site. The last time I paid with a balance though the seller was charged fees, so that is obviously incorrect and I don't know where I got that idea, lol. I realize that the service can't be free, but it's like the money exchanged had fees taken out twice - once when I recieved it, and again when I spent it. Granted I don't lose money twice, but PayPal is 'feeing' us to death. Guess that's just the cost of convenience, right?

ravensgate
01-22-2012, 09:21 PM
They used to do something different with the fees on Personal accounts (like didn't charge fees as long as you didn't take CC) but I could be wrong on that since I never had a Personal account. Now they charge the same fee across the board regardless of how you pay. Merchant accounts get a slightly lower rate but that's for large volumes of payments received.

Info can be found here

https://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/?cmd=_render-content&content_ID=marketing_us/fees

RivnRo
01-22-2012, 09:23 PM
Nothing in life is free :). Compared to money orders or dealing with checks? It's a small price to pay!

rbsmith
01-22-2012, 09:38 PM
They used to do something different with the fees on Personal accounts (like didn't charge fees as long as you didn't take CC) but I could be wrong on that since I never had a Personal account.

Yes, this. I'm not crazy then! lol. I didn't realize that the terms had changed. I have only ever had a personal account.

Intothesunstudio
01-22-2012, 10:48 PM
Its an AMEX. I'd have to look up exactly what card it is :)

ETA: The catch of the card is you don't get those rates back until you hit a certain dollar amount for the year, but when you put everything on it, it adds up quickly :)

Ah, probably the same card my parents have. They make several hundred a year by putting everything $15 and over on that card and then paying it all off at the end of the month. The lousy thing is less and less people take it because they kill the little people with their fees.

I'd like to know how places get away with all these hidden "fees" they manage to squeeze in. Phone bills, tickets, etc. Just insane!

Sorry to go off track a little.

Becky
01-23-2012, 12:00 PM
Just to play devil's advocate :devil(think thats what they call it ?) lol....

I've always found it funny how if someone will only take a MO --> a buyer never asks the seller to pay the fee to purchase the MO, but with Paypal the buyer doesn't have to pay to use that form of payment. :)

As to cash discounts etc...you see that all the time in my small town. A hair cutting place charges $17 for a cut, but if you pay cash they will give you $2 off.
Oh and don't forget gas stations that charge $3.69 gal for "cash" payment, however use your CC and it bounces to $3.79 gal.:doh

Also where I work, you cannot use your CC or debit card for any bill under $5, don't like it...the ATM machine is right there in the store.


(and no I don't ask for buyers to pick up the Paypal fee)
Becky yeager

RobinHoodFan
01-23-2012, 12:05 PM
Just to play devil's advocate :devil(think thats what they call it ?) lol....

I've always found it funny how if someone will only take a MO --> a buyer never asks the seller to pay the fee to purchase the MO, but with Paypal the buyer doesn't have to pay to use that form of payment. :)

As to cash discounts etc...you see that all the time in my small town. A hair cutting place charges $17 for a cut, but if you pay cash they will give you $2 off.
Oh and don't forget gas stations that charge $3.69 gal for "cash" payment, however use your CC and it bounces to $3.79 gal.:doh

Also where I work, you cannot use your CC or debit card for any bill under $5, don't like it...the ATM machine is right there in the store.


(and no I don't ask for buyers to pick up the Paypal fee)
Becky yeager


It's b/c that's the form of payment the BUYER chooses to pay with. If they don't like it then they can either use paypal with no fees or not buy the horsie...its the BUYERs choice in that scenario

Just like how i choose not to pay with MO b/c of 1) the inconvenience 2) the fees for the MO and maill certification 3) the unassurance that it will get there and 4) easier to get scammed. The only time i'll pay with MO is for government type things (like a copyof my marriage certificate) when it's required OR if its less than $50 and an item i REALLY want and is rare...whenever i pay with MO i kiss it goodby and be sure that I accept to be ok with losing that amount of $$ if something goes wrong.

as for the under $5 at your job thing...that's against their merchant TOS....as I mentioned previously..they're trying to get around fees on small purchases since it eats a higher percentage of their profit..I hate it too! And they shouldn't be doing it....could get in trouble if they're reported.

onekindacowboy
01-23-2012, 12:29 PM
Yep and those same people who want the buyer to pay their pp fees would throw a fit if they only accepted money orders and a buyer asked them to pay for the mo fee.

Arabesque
01-23-2012, 09:09 PM
Paypal is an extremely convenient and safe way to handle these online transactions and I think it's only fair that there is a little price to pay for it. In my experience, there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of people that want to regularly deal with just money orders. If they are selling one thing and don't mind the snail mail thing that's one thing, but if it's someone who sells regularly chances are they have caught on to using paypal. I wonder how many people that ask for the fees to be paid realize how many customers they turn off that sale by doing just that, and as mentioned here already, potentially lose. Is it really worth that extra couple of bucks? And I also have to wonder, aside from everything else, why take such a convenient and safe online service and turn it into something difficult and unappealing? People can be so cheap.

RobinHoodFan
01-23-2012, 09:40 PM
:yeahthat

They're losing much more than they think...not only are they losing the buyers who complain to them ...but they're losing buyers like me who read it and now moved on...even though i really want those DVD's I'd rather not deal with it.

mobyus
01-23-2012, 11:39 PM
Absolutely! As a seller I just consider it the cost of doing business. It's the same thing with paying for a sub to MH$P - I do it so I can make individual ads for my sales models. I can't stand those ads that are one long text list of 100+ models for sale, so I figure if I won't bother to read them, how can I expect my potential buyers to?

Inam
02-02-2012, 07:37 PM
I really want this ISH I found on MH$P and nothing was said about having to pay for paypal fees until we started emailing and I told her I wanted the horse. She stated that I have to tack on 4% on the total price but instead of "tacking" it on, should I just pay it straight out? I mean, I want a little taken back when she said I had to pay (normally I pay just because I'm nice..but no one has TOLD me that I had to pay for it).

mobyus
02-03-2012, 02:33 AM
Of course it's totally up to you - but I personally wouldn't. I would politely send a response stating that this is against Paypal's terms of service, and ask if they are aware that they can have their account banned for doing this. I would then tell them that I am no longer interested in this model and wish them luck with their sales.
I seriously don't get why sellers continue to do this. Accepting Paypal is a convenience, and helps sellers increase their sales by accessing a wider range of potential buyers. It's no different than paying listing fees with eBay, or a membership with MH$P. I could do it for free by putting a table full of Breyers at the end of my driveway, but chances are there will be very few collectors coming my way. Nor would I be able to do it sitting in my pajamas at 1am - or at least not without a few strange looks from the neighbors! :lmao

shadow's storm
02-03-2012, 06:59 AM
HONEST TO GOD, lol!! My cell phone bill is an extra $25 a month due to various "administrative charges, surcharges" etc. It makes me soooo crabby.

:exactly

Verizon does that No kidding one fee is 2 cents! Pisses me off every time I see it

ravensgate
02-03-2012, 11:31 AM
Of course it's totally up to you - but I personally wouldn't. I would politely send a response stating that this is against Paypal's terms of service, and ask if they are aware that they can have their account banned for doing this. I would then tell them that I am no longer interested in this model and wish them luck with their sales.
I seriously don't get why sellers continue to do this. Accepting Paypal is a convenience, and helps sellers increase their sales by accessing a wider range of potential buyers. It's no different than paying listing fees with eBay, or a membership with MH$P. I could do it for free by putting a table full of Breyers at the end of my driveway, but chances are there will be very few collectors coming my way. Nor would I be able to do it sitting in my pajamas at 1am - or at least not without a few strange looks from the neighbors! :lmao

Yep, if folks are told 'hope that sale was just worth it to you, because you just lost my business', maybe, just maybe they would get with the program.

mechanicaljen
02-03-2012, 11:46 AM
I'm with the others. If the 4% were that big of a deal to me..I'd add it into the sale price, and round up to an even number so it doesn't look silly.

RobinHoodFan
02-03-2012, 11:49 AM
Yep, if folks are told 'hope that sale was just worth it to you, because you just lost my business', maybe, just maybe they would get with the program.

But in the case of this, they may never learn....apparently this listing sold whilst we were talking about this...now i dont know how the transaction went or if they waived the fees or if anyone here snuck in and got it ;)..or what....it's just unfortunate that if this seller was never called out on it and shown how she lost a transaction for it, they'll never learn.

It sux I had to pay more but i'm glad i was able to support the artist by buying direct(plus i got to choose the ones I wanted anyway). Just ordered 2 more of her DVD's, they're wonderful...(just sucks b/c a day after i received the first two she made a package deal on all 7 when the other one i wanted came back in stock which was expected in 6-8 weeks...figures... just my luck :grump..can't get the set now b/c i already had the two...but luckily i was able to order the details one i was waiting for and threw one more in there to make the shipping cost "worth it"). Between these DVDs and yours, Jamie, I'm pretty darn good on instruction for awhile! So far these all have been so helpful. Most of the stuff in the video i'm already doing in my work which makes me feel better about doing it....was never certain if there was a "better" or more "correct" way of doing things..plus they are filled with many more tips and tricks to apply! :adore them all *hugs all Model Horse DVDs*

So i may be out some extra money by buying direct, but it was a much less stressful and worrisome transaction..except for missing out on the package deal:somad...lol

RobinHoodFan
02-04-2012, 11:45 AM
Just a quick update/edit to my last post, Danielle is Awesome and sent me an email letting me know I can still get the full set deal since I asked about it few days ago before she offered it!!
Sweet!

Now I really need to sit on my hands and start saving up and decide on my first resin!!!! :pompom

Eviejean
02-04-2012, 04:25 PM
Just a quick update/edit to my last post, Danielle is Awesome and sent me an email letting me know I can still get the full set deal since I asked about it few days ago before she offered it!!
Sweet!

Now I really need to sit on my hands and start saving up and decide on my first resin!!!! :pompom

That was really sweet of her to do that!
You really DO meet the nicest people in this hobby!! :thumbsup

RobinHoodFan
02-04-2012, 05:00 PM
:yeahthat

Inam
02-04-2012, 05:45 PM
Okay...I decided not to do it...even though I REALLY want that horse..but I guess I just don't like the idea of her telling me I had to pay it. If she didnt even mention it, I would have paid for it anyway!! but no..I bought some other horses from an awesome Blabber instead :hugehug (<- this is a "hug" but it looks like a makeout session...or am I the only one who sees that?)

RobinHoodFan
02-04-2012, 06:12 PM
:hugehug (<- this is a "hug" but it looks like a makeout session...or am I the only one who sees that?)
you must be really excited about those horses you just got then :haha

:hugg <--I prefer this one for hug ;)

Inam
02-04-2012, 06:22 PM
you must be really excited about those horses you just got then :haha

:hugg <--I prefer this one for hug ;)


lmao - I like that hug better..but I just noticed the other one and thought it was hilarious

unicornwoman
02-06-2012, 11:21 AM
:yeahthat I hate those fees! I also hate when I (as the buyer) am made to pay them. I've found that if you send it through the Payment Owed option, it doesn't tack on any fees. That's the way I go now. :)

Truth is, folks, you ALWAYS pay the fees in a non-charity type (as in I'm giving the item away below cost) transaction. The only thing that is different is whether the price quote includes them or not.

Same thing with "Free Shipping". Ain't no such thing unless someone is giving you the item. If you're buying, "Free Shipping" means "Shipping included."

Now, as stated, Paypal insists that it all be included; it can't be an add-on. But it is included and you ARE still paying it.

RobinHoodFan
02-06-2012, 11:41 AM
Even if I really want a model, if I see in the add that I'm supposed to tack on extra for paypal fees, I won't even inquire. It makes me that mad.

I'm sorry, but I do freakin' pre paid shipping, and sometimes that bites me in the butt and I have to pay a few bucks more than I thought, but I move on. So I get really mad when people are SO CHEAP that they can't eat their own paypal fees and instead nickel and dime me against the TOS.
:yes My thoughts exactly.