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RobinHoodFan
06-16-2012, 08:12 AM
I hope this is posted in the right place since it's not a horsey transaction but a transaction none the less. Mods please feel free to move if it's not.

Ok, here's the story:
Before bidding on a pair of tap shoes listed as worn size 8, I asked the seller what size sneaker they wore (so i can get an idea they'd fit me) and made sure there were no holes in them. Seller responded that she was a size 8 and assured me that the tap shoes were in very usable condition and that there were lots of dances left in them. Ok, sounds useable to me, all seemed to be going well...until I got the shoes

First off, they are marked as a size 9/10 not an 8 as the listing described...but that's not my biggest problem..the shoes are falling apart! The soles of both shoes are separating from the tops! These are incredibly dangerous and unsafe to dance in. When I brought this issue up to the seller, she was polite and apologized about the size first that she listed it as 8 because she wore a size 8 and regarding the falling apart, that she "forgot" that she glued the shoes back together at some point but she didn't think of mentioning it because she danced with them like that....anyway so she asked if i wanted to ship them back, have her ship me a different kind of shoe instead at not charge (hip hop, jazz, etc) or just give me my money back.

Well, these shoes are junk and unusable and I just purchased the jazz shoes i needed elsewhere so I said that I guess a refund will work fine. 2 days later, nothing. so I contacted her about it and she said she was waiting for the $ to go into her PP account and that it got there that day and i would get the refund soon...2 days after that i finally get a refund...of $5! Not the shipping of $10.40!

Um ok...first, i do not think i should be responsible for shipping costs if the item was grossly and admitiably miss described PLUS she said she would just give me my $ back as one of the options...I did not choose to ship them back so :wtf I opened an ebay case politely explaining the situation and that I dont think it's fair i'm responsible for this shipping.

They responded that they would need the item back if i wanted a full refund....

So I responded "then i would need return shipping costs as it was not my fault you falsly represented the item"...

Still waiting for the next response...Whatever she says, i'm going to respond with a copy and paste of the choices she gave me for resolution in the first place and ask why is she going back on her word. Then I'm lost on where to go from there.

It's just a really bad way to do business IMO. I know if i escalate the claim, ebay will most likely make me send the shoes back which will cost me at least another $5 and I have to trust she's going to refund me when she gets them(and judging by the last excuses and timeframe of refund for only $5, i just dont trust it)...just not cool....and in some situations, like this where i was promised a refund instead of shipping them back, eBay should see that...but i just dont trust it. She only has 4 FB one of which is neutral and she's soon to have a neg from me...cant she see this? I just dont get it!

Anyway, is it just me? Am I in the wrong here getting worked up about nothing? What would you do? I know if I were the seller, I'd take the loss and make the customer happy but that's just me and that's just good business. I just dont think i should have to pay to send these back when she's the one who ADMITTED to fasely describing them! If she didn't admit it, ok, then that's just my unhappiness about the item ..still not cool about the size but whatever, i would have just written it off...but she clearly admitted to leaving out the "gluing back together" part...UGGHHH what to do?

Also, if i close the case, can I still leave fb? I forget how that works? I remember there's something where once a case is closed, no feedback can be left unless that was a different type of closing/case?

RobinHoodFan
06-16-2012, 09:11 AM
Also just added this message to the case as I feel my last one doesnt really give any options:




Furthermore, that is not what you said in your resolution email to me. You offered me three choices: 1) Replace the shoes with a different pair at no charge 2) Return the shoes 3) Just give me my money back. I chose the third option of my money back so why are you going back on your word and saying I now need to ALSO ship them back like in option #2? Why give me any options in the first place? This seems very spiteful and very deceitful now. You admitted you sold me the shoes without mentioning you glued them back together which is knowingly deceiving your customer and an unacceptable business practice. Now you’re going back on your resolution to me. If you now want these shoes returned, you will need to cover return shipping which will cost an additional $4.90. Once this money is in my paypal account from you, I will ship back the shoes for the additional $10.40 refund. If you will not cover return shipping, then please complete my refund as originally promised.


And btw this was her original resolution email to me:
I'm so sorry.. I'm a size 8 and they fit me so I assumed they were a size 8 and I couldn't find a size on the shoe. I've glued the shoes before, that was about two years ago when I was tap dancing so i forgot about that problem. Uhm one thing I can do is ship you other shoes I have for no cost? I have jazz shoes, hip hop sneakers, and t-strap shoes. Or you can return the shoes or I can just give you your money back. Sorry for the inconvienence.. I thought they were dancable considering I danced in them with that same condition. Please let me know what you would like to do.

RobinHoodFan
06-16-2012, 09:43 AM
GAHHH!! I just noticed that the refund she gave of the $5 is still only pending!!!!!!!!!! So I didn't even receive that yet! This is ridiculous!! Seriously?!!! That means this person took the $$ out of her account Immediatly? why would you do that?!..and how could she say the $$ made it back into her paypal account when this refund is still pending?!!! :wtf I'm so confused! I've never had a pending refund! What is this?! The email i have from PP doesnt state this...it's only stated in my account and my balance is not increased....:grump

mobyus
06-16-2012, 12:04 PM
She may have spent the money in her PP account that you originally paid, and had to transfer more to cover your refund (I think they treat it like an e-check?). I think this means she doesn't have a credit card linked to her PP account? So that wouldn't necessarily be cause for alarm, just annoying to have to wait longer.

That said, she absolutely needs to refund you for an "item not described". However, I'm not sure if you can hold her to the offer to refund you in full without returning the shoes if she fights it, since my understanding is that eBay requires you return the item for a full refund. If it were me, I'd go ahead and ship them back with delivery confirmation. You might have to eat the cost of return shipping, but she would be required to refund you the original purchase price AND shipping cost in full per eBay rules.

It definitely stinks that you had a bad transaction and she failed so spectacularly to describe them accurately, but hopefully opening the dispute will get a satisfactory resolution. Good luck!

RobinHoodFan
06-16-2012, 12:23 PM
She may have spent the money in her PP account that you originally paid, and had to transfer more to cover your refund (I think they treat it like an e-check?). I think this means she doesn't have a credit card linked to her PP account? So that wouldn't necessarily be cause for alarm, just annoying to have to wait longer.

That said, she absolutely needs to refund you for an "item not described". However, I'm not sure if you can hold her to the offer to refund you in full without returning the shoes if she fights it, since my understanding is that eBay requires you return the item for a full refund. If it were me, I'd go ahead and ship them back with delivery confirmation. You might have to eat the cost of return shipping, but she would be required to refund you the original purchase price AND shipping cost in full per eBay rules.

It definitely stinks that you had a bad transaction and she failed so spectacularly to describe them accurately, but hopefully opening the dispute will get a satisfactory resolution. Good luck!
Right that makes sense but then why did she make me wait until she got the $$ back in her PP account in order to refund me anything??! It just sounds fishy b/c obviously it's NOT in her PP account to still be pending! First, its stupid to spend the $$ that quickly as a seller...this is why the eBay hold everyone complains about is a good thing sometimes!

I know what you're saying and yes i know i'll be forced to return them and I would totally eat the $5 in shipping cost if i felt i could trust this seller (which irks me that she charged me $10.40 for shipping when they go right in a FRE for $4.90)....but now I have to trust she will get this $$ back to me once she gets the shoes AND trust that eBay will get that $$ from her if she doesn't?! I've already had cases where i won but couldn't be refunded b/c there was no money in the sellers act. She already clearly has nothing in her PP account and I'm already going to be waiting till Jun 20th just to get the $5 back if it even clears!!!! Just SOOOO not worth it to potentially loose another $5 to return these if it doesn't work out! I'd rather loose the $10 with the stress than $15 with the stress. Plus I have a feeling she's going to try and rescind the $5 refund now somehow. I'm going to have to wait to do anything until that refund clears...i dont want to close the case and never actually even see the $$ in the end b/c she bounces it...then I'd be stuck.

I just don't understand how some people think...if you're going to offer a customer a resolution, then why don't you follow up on it? Sounds like her wanting me to ship these back is out of spite for opening a case. PLUS what if i said i did want a different pair of shoes instead...she was going to ship me those at no extra cost...sooo therefore spending the same amount of $$ she owes me here! It just baffles me how some people just dont get it! I'm seriously considering just closing the case with "decided to keep" and leaving a neg. Can I do that still? Do I leave the FB before or after closing it? Will eBay even allow FB at this point? Maybe before doing that, seeing if she'll meet me 1/2 way and just refund me an extra $5.

All i know is these shoes are going to be chucked in the garbage anyway...i dont see what she can do with them even if i do return them. No one in their right mind would dance in these...so dangerous! Some people are just not smart when it comes to business ethics!

timberwolf
06-17-2012, 08:42 AM
If I remember correctly, Ebay says the buyer has to pay for return shipping - not the seller. Ebay might refund the postage under some circumstances.
* I have not read Ebays terms for returning items in a while so this might be out of date. It used to be the case.

But she should have refunded the shipping for the original purchase. I think that is Ebay policy.

RobinHoodFan
06-17-2012, 09:30 AM
My previous quote:

I know what you're saying and yes i know i'll be forced to return them and I would totally eat the $5 in shipping cost if i felt i could trust this seller (which irks me that she charged me $10.40 for shipping when they go right in a FRE for $4.90)....but now I have to trust she will get this $$ back to me once she gets the shoes AND trust that eBay will get that $$ from her if she doesn't?! I've already had cases where i won but couldn't be refunded b/c there was no money in the sellers act. She already clearly has nothing in her PP account and I'm already going to be waiting till Jun 20th just to get the $5 back if it even clears!!!! Just SOOOO not worth it to potentially loose another $5 to return these if it doesn't work out! I'd rather loose the $10 with the stress than $15 with the stress. Plus I have a feeling she's going to try and rescind the $5 refund now somehow. I'm going to have to wait to do anything until that refund clears...i dont want to close the case and never actually even see the $$ in the end b/c she bounces it...then I'd be stuck.

And btw, still waiting for a response from her...i have a feeling she's waiting this whole thing out b/c she knows eBay will make me return it...which is just a WRONG and spiteful thing to do. It's not fair to promise a buyer a resolution and then pretend it never happened. Customer service FAIL.

Eviejean
06-17-2012, 09:53 AM
This information was taken directly from eBay's Help site - Resolving Buying Problems:

What to do if you don't receive an item or it doesn't match the seller's description

Steps to take if an item doesn't match the seller's description



1.

If you haven't already, contact your seller (http://pages.ebay.com/help/buy/contact.html). Many issues can be solved with a simple conversation.



2.

If the seller hasn't made things right, open an eBay Buyer Protection case (http://resolutioncenter.ebay.com/) so we can help.



3.


Because the item doesn't match the seller's description, the seller may:

Offer you a partial refund to make up for the ways the item is different from the description
Ask that you return the item for a full refund
Ask that you return the item in exchange for a replacement item, if you agree
If you're offered a partial refund, you can accept it, request a different amount, or suggest another solution, like returning the item for a full refund. If you decide to return the item, you'll need to ship the item with delivery confirmation (plus signature confirmation for items that are $250.00 or more) and enter the tracking number in the Resolution Center (http://resolutioncenter.ebay.com/). We'll ask you to confirm that you received a refund or a replacement item.


4.

If 7 days have passed since you opened the case, and the seller still hasn't resolved the problem, we recommend that you escalate the case to eBay Customer Support. eBay will review the case and may provide a refund of the purchase price plus original shipping.




As much as you don't want to admit it, it looks like you ARE responsible to return the item to get the full refund. Sorry, I know it's not what you wanted to hear.... and I personally don't think what the seller did is right.....

RobinHoodFan
06-17-2012, 10:09 AM
I just dont trust this will end well either way and to repeat myself again, i fear that i will lose more by sending these back since i've already had times where i did return the item and wasn't fully refunded b/c their pp acct was empty...so id rather take the loss with what i already lost then to lose more and continue to deal with this nonsense and think about it every day till it's over...if i already had the cleared refund, i'd close the case now...if is hip em back, i have to worry about the shipemnt, then whats going to happen when she gets it..then worry about if it will clear...it will go on for at least a month and I just dont have time to deal with that :poo for $10..not worth it...I'm waiting till the 20th (when that $5 refund should clear) and then seeing if she'd meet me half way on the cost to end this whole mess. If she still dosnt respond, i'm closing the case with a neg...

BUT What i really want to know is if i can still leave a neg once i close this case?

mobyus
06-17-2012, 12:03 PM
I see what you mean; I got hit by a seller with no money in their PP account for a refund, which was incredibly frustrating. She did eventually reimburse me in order to re-activate her account. Since you don't seem to be getting a satisfactory resolution from her, I'd wait and see what eBay does with the case before closing it or taking any other action. I'm pretty sure you can leave a neg at the end of it either way?

RobinHoodFan
06-17-2012, 12:17 PM
Well, ebay wont do anything until i escalate it...the case will be closed automatically by them on Jul15th if i dont escalate...once i escalate to a claim, i know ebay will ask me to return the shoes....is the stress of worrying about it getting there ok, her not lying that i returned something different, the refund clearing, etc worth the extra $5 refund in the end (since i'd be losing $5 in the return)?. It's just frustrating...a buyer should NOT have to pay for return shipping if an item is ADMITTED to being falsely advertised! She flat out admitted it...so aggrivating...it's not like this was a simple "these are more worn than they should be" NO she flat out glued them back together and tried to pass it off as wear but still very usable?? Um no...i if i danced in these, i could seriously injure myself..just so NOT COOL :grump

Eviejean
06-17-2012, 12:27 PM
BUT What i really want to know is if i can still leave a neg once i close this case?
I don't have time to look but I though someone here on Blab (in another thread) said that once her case was closed she couldn't leave feedback of any kind...:dunno I dunno for certain.

Sorry, the other information wasn't what you needed. :sigh

RobinHoodFan
06-17-2012, 07:48 PM
ugh..just got this as a response:


"Oh my gosh you're crazy, I refunded you the shoes. If you don't want them, send them back. I'm not paying for shipping. It's not my fault you live in NY."

what?? how am I the crazy one and what does living in NY have to do with anything? I'm SO done with this!!!!

And btw sounds like she only read that first response of mine and NONE of the others of me reiterating what she said to me in the first place! GRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!:tantrum:tantrum:tantrum

RobinHoodFan
06-17-2012, 07:50 PM
I don't have time to look but I though someone here on Blab (in another thread) said that once her case was closed she couldn't leave feedback of any kind...:dunno I dunno for certain.

Sorry, the other information wasn't what you needed. :sigh

I seem to remember that too..but cant remmeber if it was a NPB or SNAD case either....

No worries, rather have too much info than not enough ;)

mobyus
06-17-2012, 08:12 PM
Wow, that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. From looking at this page (http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/shipping-returns.html), I would personally keep the claim open and send her item back. I think you can send it back relatively cheaply using parcel post with delivery confirmation? Yeah, it's more aggravation and a little bit out of pocket for you, but this seller doesn't sound like they want to reach a satisfactory resolution based on what you've shared, so I would let eBay handle it. And if I'm reading the end of this page (http://pages.ebay.com/help/buy/protection-programs.html) right, it does sound as if you can leave feedback after the case is closed. I also saw this repeated a few times in the community forums:
The only time a buyer cannot leave FB for a seller is if the buyer has not paid and a UPI case has been closed against them by the seller. I have a vague recollection of doing so after a dispute myself. Again, I'm sorry this is turning into a mess for you. :hugg

RobinHoodFan
06-17-2012, 08:20 PM
Thanks. Yea i did read most of that at some point...and what scares me is that if there's no $$ in their PP acct (which i prettymuch know there isnt) then all ebay will do is shut down their acct till payment is made...whats to say they just dont open up another? The shoes will fit in a Priority flat rate for 4.90 so i know exactly how much it will cost...but still..dont want to be caught with no refund at all in the end.

Hubby said just leave the case open and give a neg and be done with it...it's $15 but causing $80 worth of stress, it's not worth it.

I have a response ready but not sure if it's too "harsh" or if she can use it to get the FB removed...i dont want to come off as fb extortion or anything then be out the $15 and she gets the fb removed in the end.... how's this sound:

"What does living in NY have to do with anything? Did you even read my other two responses reiterating what you promised me in the first place? I feel like I'm talking to a different person here. It IS your fault for knowingly selling something that you did not describe properly. PLUS, I still have not received the refund for the shoes. The funds are still pending, so no, technically you did not refund me for the shoes yet. You said the money took time to go back into your Paypal account which is why you delayed the refund in the first place but that's clearly not true. You're giving me the run-around and you've literally scammed me here. You really should take a good hard look at your selling practices and customer service ethics. I've been more than patient here."

RobinHoodFan
06-17-2012, 08:48 PM
Know what, not even going to respond...just gunna leave a neg and be done with it like hubby says..he's right...not worth it

Eviejean
06-19-2012, 11:42 AM
Know what, not even going to respond...just gunna leave a neg and be done with it like hubby says..he's right...not worth it

How did you decide to end up resolving this???

Erin
06-19-2012, 12:02 PM
Know what, not even going to respond...just gunna leave a neg and be done with it like hubby says..he's right...not worth it

This is what I was going to suggest - for a total loss of $15, it's not worth all this aggravation. Throw them in the trash, leave a neg and off you go!

RobinHoodFan
06-19-2012, 03:34 PM
HEEEEEYYY guess what?!! Just got an email today that the $5 refund was declined by their bank! Isn't that wonderful?! Soo now what? Should I escalate it to at least get that $5? There's no way i am trusting sending the shoes back ..but do you think eBay will make her at least pay that $5 refund or suspend her acct for it? Or are they going to cut and dry try to make me return the shoes for any sort of compensation?

RobinHoodFan
06-19-2012, 04:03 PM
How did you decide to end up resolving this???

The case is still open but I already left a neg....because of the new turn in case, I may escalate it to get that $5 that bounced but i'm not sure if eBay will still make me try to return the shoes or not. :sigh

Eviejean
06-20-2012, 01:01 PM
What a PITA for you. :sigh :hugg

Are you allowed to post the seller's id here in the Transactions Board so we can be on the lookout to NOT bid on any of her auctions?

RobinHoodFan
06-20-2012, 01:40 PM
PM me if you'd like the ID....i escalated to a claim last night..hopefully eBay really DOES look into past emails and the bounced refund and not just the case messages to determine the outcome. :sigh...well at least it was only $15 and not anything pricey!

Eviejean
06-20-2012, 01:48 PM
PM me if you'd like the ID....i escalated to a claim last night..hopefully eBay really DOES look into past emails and the bounced refund and not just the case messages to determine the outcome. :sigh...well at least it was only $15 and not anything pricey!

This seller shouldn't be allowed to get away with this!!!!!
Hope for the best for you. :crossfingers

ravensgate
06-20-2012, 04:03 PM
Ebay will refund you the price plus shipping and you may not have to return the item. I received the wrong size item one time and kept getting 'it's in the mail' on replacement from the seller. I escalated it, got the full refund and was not required to return the item through Ebay. I emailed the seller to see if they wanted it back and never got a response. I never did get the replacement either. I filed it as an item not as described.

rottweilerdriver
06-21-2012, 05:24 PM
And this is why I don't buy anything from Ebay. At all....Horse related or otherwise. Amazon is much more covered.

Warmly,
Jackie

RobinHoodFan
06-21-2012, 07:12 PM
And this is why I don't buy anything from Ebay. At all....Horse related or otherwise. Amazon is much more covered.

Warmly,
Jackie
Not necessarily..Amazon customer service is TERRIBLE...i've had quite a few bad experiences with Amazon as with eBay but i've had some great experiences with both as well...so they both have thier ups and downs.

I love eBay and amazon is great for holiday time...both have their place.

RobinHoodFan
06-24-2012, 12:55 AM
Update:
Just received final word on the case. Ebay has issued me a refund of the full price as a courtesy (which probably means they couldn't get the funds from the seller's acct..:dunno). They didn't ask for anything...they did take a bit longer than it should have..maybe that's why they decided to give it to me? Either way, luckily i received my $ back. I just feel bad there's no way to reply and thank them...always feel weird not being able to say "thank you" especially for things like this.

mobyus
06-24-2012, 08:59 AM
Phew! I'm glad it got resolved! I'm sorry you had to go through this, but good for you for sticking with it and holding the seller accountable.

RobinHoodFan
06-24-2012, 09:57 AM
Yea...in cases like this, it's mostly about the principal of the matter.

Eviejean
06-24-2012, 06:45 PM
Phew! I'm glad it got resolved! I'm sorry you had to go through this, but good for you for sticking with it and holding the seller accountable.


Yea...in cases like this, it's mostly about the principal of the matter.
Glad it got resolved!
I'm a firm believer in "holding people accountable" and "the principal of the matter"!

RobinHoodFan
06-24-2012, 07:43 PM
Glad it got resolved!
I'm a firm believer in "holding people accountable" and "the principal of the matter"!

Yea, this one time i had to file a claim for item not received and it was only like a $2 comic book...i felt bad and kinda stupid doing it but there was no communication, no ship notification and they started getting negs from others who bought aroudn the same time as me saying tem not received..they like dropped off the planet oddly...I won the claim, got the like $2 back but the weird thing was, like a week or two later, they shipped me the item! Huhhh?? I was baffled when i opened the package like 2 months after the fact. :dunno Maybe they felt bad..i dunno...some things are just weird in the universe. :lol