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Misty Star Studios
01-12-2017, 11:39 AM
I need some help. This isn't a model related transaction but maybe someone can give me some advice on this! On January 6th I sold a small lot of Webkinz penguins on eBay. (Link to auction (http://www.ebay.com/itm/252712710573?ssPageName=STRK:MESOX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1559.l2649)) I was asking $24.99 but someone made me an offer for $21 and I accepted. I planned on shipping it out on the 7th, the next day, and told the buyer this but I felt like being nice and made a special trip to take the box to the post office that same day (the 6th). It was delivered on the 9th, and I received a message from the buyer - "Hi...Shipment arrived today......I received a lil kinz penguin with NO CODE......a baby penguin with code & a regular penguin with code.........What happened to the SIGNATURE penguin (as shown in picture) and the code for the lil kinz penguin?"

When I packed the box I wrapped the plush in tissue paper and made sure to put the signature tag on top, so when they opened the box the tag would be right there. And the description says which tags are included - penguin, baby penguin, and signature. No lil'kinz tag or code for the ornament which was included. You can also see in the pics which ones have codes and which do not. Clearly this was an oversight on the buyer's part, so I kindly explained immediately after I received the message, as my phone is set to get notifications, "Hi there! The signature code I put in the top of the box on top of the tissue paper. Check the box, it might have slipped down and it just got looked over :-) As for the Lil' Kinz penguin, he did not have a code as mentioned in the listing - "Includes penguin, lil' kinz penguin, baby penguin, and ornament. Tags included are Signature penguin, penguin, and baby penguin." Hope that helps!"

I'm thinking during shipping the signature code I put on top must have slid down and is now on the bottom or on the side of the box, under the tissue paper (since I put it on top) and she just missed it when she took everything out. Or she opened the box from the bottom and the tag is still on the "top," but now the bottom since she opened from the other end, if that makes sense.

I waited a few days and didn't hear anything back from them so I assumed they realized their mistake and found the tag, no problem. However, today, January 12th, I received another message, "Hi ~~ 2nd message sent......Item received not as advertised....no signature penguin and baby penguin has no code......."

Not sure why they're saying 2nd message sent - I replied immediately after their first message on the 9th! Is there a glitch in eBay's sytem that they didn't get my first message? I've never heard of eBay messages being misdelivered. And I did check my sent folder and it did go through. Giving them the benefit of the doubt that they just missed my first reply, I sent another, "Hi [removed her name], I replied to your first message on January 9th. Here is my message again.
Hi there! The signature code I put in the top of the box on top of the tissue paper. Check the box, it might have slipped down and it just got looked over :-) As for the Lil' Kinz penguin, he did not have a code as mentioned in the listing - "Includes penguin, lil' kinz penguin, baby penguin, and ornament. Tags included are Signature penguin, penguin, and baby penguin." Hope that helps!"



What do I do now? If she opens a case, will eBay side with the buyer, even though she misread my description and didn't see the tag in the box? What if she already threw away the packaging and now the code is gone? Of course she's disputing the most expensive piece in the lot. I have another Webkinz item here I thought about offering as compensation but I feel like I'm not obligated to send anything extra when I know I put that tag in the box? Plus I went out of my way to ship the same day and accept her lower offer. I've never had something like this happen before and not sure how to handle this if they open a case or don't reply at all.

Misty Star Studios
01-12-2017, 01:18 PM
Just got a reply, now they're claiming they didn't get the ornament either. HELP!

"Hi ~~ Sorry, I did not receive your message from the 9th......also it appears I did get the lil' kinz and the baby penguins mixed up.....again, this is what I received: lil' kinz plush with no code and penguin and baby penguin plushes with codes. No signature code and no "ornament".....I no longer have the shipping box, but my husband always flattens out all boxes and had there been a code in there he would have told me........Bottom line....I do not have the signature code or the "ornament"........(what kind of "ornament" was it)"

allykatd
01-12-2017, 01:23 PM
It's going to be he said/she said and unfortunately I think Ebay will probably settle in their favor. This is why I no longer sell anything on Ebay. Next time you pack something up, you may need to take photos so you have proof that everything went in the box.

I really really hope it's settle amicably but it'd doubtful. :(

Misty Star Studios
01-12-2017, 01:28 PM
Ugh. That's what I figured. Most transactions go well but I always get the people trying to rip me off. I think whatever I do I'm going to get burned - if I ask her to return them I won't get everything back, and if I try to go with a partial refund she'll probably want an exorbitant amount. I offered her the other Webkinz item, if that doesn't work I guess I'll offer a partial refund just to get it over with. :sigh

Aidan's Toy Trove
01-12-2017, 01:32 PM
Yes so sorry. eBay would side with the buyer. At least, it won't count as a strike against your account if you settle with the buyer. But this sucks, it has happened to me more than once!

allykatd
01-12-2017, 02:00 PM
Yes, ask for everything back and just refund her money. If she's trying to rip you off or was sloppy about unpacking, at least she won't get anything but her money. Don't offer a partial.

Misty Star Studios
01-12-2017, 02:15 PM
Yes, ask for everything back and just refund her money. If she's trying to rip you off or was sloppy about unpacking, at least she won't get anything but her money. Don't offer a partial.

Just curious, why would you suggest not offering a partial refund? If I have her return it then I won't get everything back, since she's claiming she didn't get the tag and ornament. So I'll be out those items and won't be able to resell for the same price.

allykatd
01-12-2017, 03:10 PM
I was basing this on your comment that she's going to want an exorbitant amount for a refund. If you think she has the items, but is trying to say she doesn't, returning everything might magically summon the missing items. It's a gamble.

Misty Star Studios
01-12-2017, 03:14 PM
Ah, okay thanks! :thumbsup

SylvanTrails
01-12-2017, 05:12 PM
For a future idea, put any loose codes in a ziploc bag and not just in tissue in the box...possibly even tape/staple the ziploc to the packing slip (if you send a packing slip, I usually do). That way it's not just a tiny piece of paper floating around in the box.

(I'm sending out lots of stuff right now and doing things like putting phone cables in ziplocs so they don't get lost, a clean paper towel in the case to keep game CDs from coming loose, etc.)

Misty Star Studios
01-12-2017, 06:10 PM
For a future idea, put any loose codes in a ziploc bag and not just in tissue in the box...possibly even tape/staple the ziploc to the packing slip (if you send a packing slip, I usually do). That way it's not just a tiny piece of paper floating around in the box.

(I'm sending out lots of stuff right now and doing things like putting phone cables in ziplocs so they don't get lost, a clean paper towel in the case to keep game CDs from coming loose, etc.)

That's a good idea, thank you! I'll try that next time :)






So I offered them a refund if they returned everything or a Webkinz frog keychain thing as a consolation. Got this in reply, "I hate returning items , hate frogs and hate Kinz Klips.....I have probably 30 that I have never used......my loss :("



Guess I'll leave it at that. Seems like they're trying to get something for nothing. I gave her plenty of options and she refuses to take any so that's her problem. :dunno

juliacodeman
01-12-2017, 06:14 PM
I would just call eBay, and explain that this person is trying to pull a fast one. Ask the buyer to pack and send everything back. Usually that stops it dead in it's tracks, as the buyer doesn't want to actually return the items, they just want to get them for free. Plus, if the codes are used now, you'd want to explain to eBay that the code is "used" therefore the item is no good as it was sold initially. Good luck!

Misty Star Studios
01-12-2017, 06:31 PM
I would just call eBay, and explain that this person is trying to pull a fast one. Ask the buyer to pack and send everything back. Usually that stops it dead in it's tracks, as the buyer doesn't want to actually return the items, they just want to get them for free. Plus, if the codes are used now, you'd want to explain to eBay that the code is "used" therefore the item is no good as it was sold initially. Good luck!

What would I do if I don't get everything back though? Would ebay do anything about it?

juliacodeman
01-12-2017, 06:58 PM
If they don't return everything, which they likely won't since they are saying things are missing from the shipment as it is, then this is where you will unfortunately lose those items. Any negative feedback given for this will, can and should be removed from your account-which again is another call to eBay. Some buyers are just so challenging. I'm sorry this happened to you...if they return the codes used and activated on the Webkinz website, then there's another call to eBay to let them know your items are damaged and unsaleable.

Misty Star Studios
01-12-2017, 07:20 PM
Thanks Julia :hugg

juliacodeman
01-12-2017, 07:27 PM
What a rat's nest, really. That stinks.

onekindacowboy
01-12-2017, 09:05 PM
I think I dodged a bullet before Christmas. I sold an item on Saturday December 18. I had sold quite a few items over the weekend and missed getting about 4 out on Tuesday. I wasn't able to get out anywhere but to work on Monday due to a winter storm and just couldn't get all of the items packaged on Tuesday. I sent those few people a note that said the items would go out on Thursday. I had a women contact me about how I had guaranteed Christmas delivery and that is why she purchased and paid right away as I told her that I would mail it first thing on Monday. First of all she obviously had me mixed up with another seller as I would never had promised that as the bad weather was in the forecast. Second I can't guarantee first class or even priority USPS postal service to CA from IL if the post office won't even do it. So she asked what I was going to do as a concession and sent that ebay had estimated delivery from the 21st to the 24th. I sent back I have no control over what ebay says is estimated delivery and I never promised her it would be there by Christmas so I will cancel the order and refund her money. And that is what I did. She sent a snipe that she honors her commitments. I was happy to cancel the order as I figured it would not turn out well. I resold the item to a very nice person in Scotland who did contact me about mailing it out asap to her sister in CA as her sister was hopping a plane to see her. I was worried it wouldn't make it in a week and said that I could just mail it to her in Scotland even though the auction says no international. She decided to risk it and I got it out asap to her sister. So happy ending for all!

Aidan's Toy Trove
01-12-2017, 09:15 PM
eBay will always side with the buyer after a return is shipped. They can ship you an empty box or a box full or rocks and eBay will automatically refund them as long as they provide tracking.

allykatd
01-12-2017, 09:18 PM
eBay will always side with the buyer after a return is shipped. They can ship you an empty box or a box full or rocks and eBay will automatically refund them as long as they provide tracking.

I'm surprised that sellers aren't leaving Ebay in droves. It just seems a very hostile place for sellers.

BuckR.
01-12-2017, 09:36 PM
Yeah, eBay once refunded a buyer of ours without them even shipping the item back... because they got it, and then found a better price (as they stated in the return). We do NOT accept returns for that reason, which is in our policy, but eBay didn't even wait for us to review. They refunded them right away. :mad We never got the item back. They didn't have to send tracking or anything.

Aidan's Toy Trove
01-12-2017, 09:38 PM
eBay is very seller unfriendly. I wish that I could migrate all of my sales off of it but there are just too many buyers that prefer eBay. If I were a small time seller, I would stear well clear of eBay. As it is now, we build the price of a having a couple of bad apple buyers into the price of all of our horses on eBay. eBay flat out told me to do this, we can't protect you so build it into your price! Sigh. We do get dishonest returns but thankfully they are minimal. It really bites when it happens and paying the original and return shipping is a double whammy.

juliacodeman
01-12-2017, 10:10 PM
I agree. There are many issues with selling on eBay, oh, don't get me started! Yet it is where the buyers go. I had someone buy an item, contact me and say it wasn't what they thought it was, I said no problem, send it back and I'll refund you, then I just changed my mind, refunded them, and told them to donate the item to a homeless shelter. It wasn't even worth it, as if you offer free shipping as a seller, and someone returns something, well, you've got to pay to get it back! So I was out the shipping costs going out, out the shipping costs coming back, and out the money for the sale. They might as well keep it! I'm glad LeeAnn, that the buyer is not going to bother returning. I sure hope she thinks twice about writing her feedback since you did offer every concession.

FourWindsFarm
01-13-2017, 11:51 AM
Yes, as others have stated, asking for the buyer to return the item is taking a gamble. If you're doing it to 'call their bluff' you'd better be sure they'll give up, or they can send you an empty box and keep the item and ebay will side with them. I had this happen. Reason number 093458 I no longer sell on ebay.

A guy in one of the bands my husband plays in openly bragged about scoring a $4500 saxophone this way.... he bought it on ebay, claimed it wasn't as described. The seller asked for a return of the item. He put a cheap student saxophone worth about $200 in the case and shipped it back. Ebay sided with him, so he got a nice horn for next to nothing and the seller got screwed. The guy is a creep, and neither of us can stand him, but he's accumulated horns, computers, antiques, and all sorts of other stuff by screwing over ebay sellers and ebay has never done anything to stop it. His son works at a pawnshop, and I think they 'buy' stuff like this on ebay, then sell it through the pawnshop and make a tidy profit and according to ebay, it's all legally purchased.

allykatd
01-13-2017, 12:22 PM
Yes, as others have stated, asking for the buyer to return the item is taking a gamble. If you're doing it to 'call their bluff' you'd better be sure they'll give up, or they can send you an empty box and keep the item and ebay will side with them. I had this happen. Reason number 093458 I no longer sell on ebay.

A guy in one of the bands my husband plays in openly bragged about scoring a $4500 saxophone this way.... he bought it on ebay, claimed it wasn't as described. The seller asked for a return of the item. He put a cheap student saxophone worth about $200 in the case and shipped it back. Ebay sided with him, so he got a nice horn for next to nothing and the seller got screwed. The guy is a creep, and neither of us can stand him, but he's accumulated horns, computers, antiques, and all sorts of other stuff by screwing over ebay sellers and ebay has never done anything to stop it. His son works at a pawnshop, and I think they 'buy' stuff like this on ebay, then sell it through the pawnshop and make a tidy profit and according to ebay, it's all legally purchased.

This guy sounds like a complete a-hole. Someone is going to catch him one day, I hope. Maybe everyone should be photographing what they put in the box before shipping to protect themselves against scammers like this. Also, if someone is returning a lot of items and sellers complain, wouldn't Ebay look into it?

More then a few times when I've seen something for sale on MHSP with a link to an Ebay auction, I've asked the seller if they want to end the auction to avoid the fees and hassle. I've never had anyone say no. Ebay is a good idea, but in many ways a good idea poorly executed.

FourWindsFarm
01-13-2017, 12:45 PM
How is a photograph going to help? All the buyer has to do is say what's in the photo is not what they received. Ebay doesn't care a bit if the sellers are upset, just if the buyers are happy.

Aidan's Toy Trove
01-13-2017, 04:23 PM
It's doubtful that eBay would look into a buyer with multiple returns that have had complaints filed by the seller. eBay has told me that returns are a 'he said she said' sort of thing and when in doubt, they will side with the buyer always. To a point I understand but it angers me that they won't even review these cases. My last bad return? I didn't get the same brand new in box Breyers that I mailed out. I got restrapped to the box used Breyers. The buyer originally opened a complaint with eBay stating that the horses both had broken legs (in the original Breyer box) and wasn't required to provide proof despite my asking for pictures. Even the ones that I received in the return didn't have broken legs and I opened the box on video and provided the video to eBay. The buyer got her refund, including postage both ways for basically a free trade up. :somad This buyer clearly knew what he/she was doing and how to work eBay's system.

Misty Star Studios
01-13-2017, 05:34 PM
That's sickening! People are disgusting. I really dislike selling on eBay for these reasons and many more but of course, that's where the buyers are as you all already said. If only there was a better outlet for selling with the same amount of traffic. I need the extra cash and want to get rid of my items I don't want but there's no other way to do it :sad

Thank you all for your help, I too hope they don't try to turn around and leave negative feedback... Guess that's another call to eBay if they do!

Mary
01-13-2017, 09:41 PM
What these people are doing is dishonest, but I'm not sure it's definitely illegal in many cases ... especially if there is an arbitration available as ebay provides, even if that arbitration is miserable. Because people like the saxophone guy are usually in another state from the buyer, so even if a police report was filed, there is no way for the police to take action. Nor would it be worth the effort and cost of verifying these cases with an independent expert and then going after the bad actor.

My idea has always been that if everyone who was cheated got together, had the evidence to support their claims, and went to the right police jurisdiction at the right time, there might be hope. I have NO idea how to gather and coordinate such a group, though.

Unfortunately, as said above, ebay has created a system where the seller has no choice other than to protect themselves through multiple sales where other items will cover the cost of losses and still return a profit. So that actually increases ebay's business in a way ebay wants - 'go big or go home' if you are a seller.

Otherwise ... buyer/seller reporting such as TTB and MHHR is needed. I hereby give away the idea to create a website for reporting buyers/seller from ebay, as I will not get that done in my lifetime. Might need a very protective attorney to do that, though. :grin

Ebay is just not the place for one-item sellers. I'm recognizing this myself, thinking of The Great Herd Reduction that is going to happen. Someday. :yes :uh

pzp
01-15-2017, 09:56 PM
I'm surprised that sellers aren't leaving Ebay in droves. It just seems a very hostile place for sellers.
Sellers are leaving - and have left - Ebay in droves.

Princesstriage
01-15-2017, 10:55 PM
I'm pretty sure if Ebay is 'legalizing' the theft of people's items there is a way that if enough sellers could organize themselves and have the proof to back their claims there would be grounds for a class action lawsuit against Ebay. However, I am at a loss myself as to how they would go about this due to the fact the buyer/seller are very often in different states.

FourWinds friend sounds like a grade a a-hole indeed, and he may want to watch himself, just because Ebay is claiming his actions are legit, they are NOT a court of law and cannot protect him if he gets nailed by someone willing to spend the time and resources to go after him... just the one Saxophone incident will have him close to if not in grand theft territory if the seller had decided to go after him for it.

FourWindsFarm
01-15-2017, 11:19 PM
He's not a friend. He's a guy we happen to know. We both despise him.

However, all he has to say is that the student horn was what was in the case when he received it, not the professional saxophone, and that's what he probably claimed on 'item not as described.' There's no way to prove otherwise, and he knows it.

Lora
01-16-2017, 05:07 AM
If you take your parcel to the post office open, take your tape etc. with you. You can show the item to the person working at the post office before you seal it off and hand it over to the post office.
I'm sure there are other places to sell like gumtree. But why should buyer go there if it is so easy for the buyer on E-Bay and the seller are at E-Bay ?
If seller would leave E-Bay, even if it means that they have to take a loss for a while , when buyers would follow if all that are left on E-Bay are dishonest seller who use E-Bay as a way to get interest-free loans. That happened to me just around christmas . Bought to model horses, seller never shipped .Due to bank holidays etc. I had to wait until next year to get my money back. In the mean time the seller had my money and only had to return the amount without interest. And seeing his feedback I'm not the only one.
If several people would file lawsuits against the saxophon guy would that not at some point be enough evidence that there is something fishy ? Especially if the people don't know each other ? If he's sending a cheap student saxophone back, may be the other could prove he never had a student saxophone ?
E-Bay is a vicious circle and E-Bay won't change anything as long sellers won't leave them deserted. But sellers won't because the buyers go there. and the buyers go there because they are protected and the sellers are there. But buyer protection is worth nothing if there would be nothing to buy . You can sell model horses on MH$P and Facebook and on forums like here. Unfortunatly for me (as a buyer) there is no global shipping program to save me custom fees...
If they could be trusted they could act as an independent witness. Everyone sends their item to the shipping center, they open the box take photos of the content, make notes of serial numbers etc. and ship it on tho the buyer. In theory the buyer then could not ship back a total different item or one with a different serial number , because the buyer would also ship it back to the shipping center , who than compare the items with their records.
Also noone would need to know each other adresses.

Ulla Harneit

VWK'sanEasyGoer
01-16-2017, 08:26 AM
It's always sad when the people who are dishonest and taking advantage of the system are able to get away with it. They don't seem to realize that if all of us scammed everyone, people and businesses all the time, the world economy would not run.

It really irks me when people brag about getting a deal through a scam. Like they're smarter than everyone else. No not smart, sneaky perhaps, but not smart. It's smart to do the right thing and make the world a better place.

curlinfan
01-16-2017, 09:13 AM
As you pack the item take a video with you're phone. Lay out all the stuff-item you're shipping, box, bubble wrap, ect-and record yourself packing it up and sealing the box. Get extra video of the item before you wrap it up and put it in the box. Record every inch of it and point out any identifying flaws or characteristics. For models that could be paint overspray or a shiny mark. Also record yourself handing it over to the clerk for shipping and the receipt. Once it's shipped contact the buyer and let them know it's on the way and tell them you have video of the item, how it was packed and when & where it was shipped. Tell them you took lots of video of the item itself. If they ask why tell them "For our protection.". They'll be less likely to pull something if they know you have proof.
If you don't want to bother with the scammers at all just put in your eBay listings that you video everything-including details of the item. Bold it so it stands out. Odds are they'll pass your listing by when they see that precaution.