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triplebdesigns
11-10-2004, 10:32 AM
I have hinder and hawed on this one and trying to think of a way to post this as I don't like to do the "red light" thing on people.

I judged a show for Cristy Brown in Nicholasville, KY, in early October. It was agreed that Christy would pay the gas and I would pick up the hotel. She offered for me to stay at her place, but I had other business in town (I worked it around the show) so I stayed at the good old familiar HIN.

I got to the show an hour late (accident on the highway - they had black ice!!) and a few showers were a little late as well due to accidents on the roads and ice. (so weird to see ice in KY in October). Anywhoo...I get to the show thinking I would see my first class on the table so I can get crackin' and get movin'.

I'm there a good 45 minutes or so before my first class is called to the tables. So now the show is 2 hours late getting started. Despite this, I still managed to get all the performance classes judged by 1pm! WHEW! I was moving and the showers were great at keeping on it and keeping up with me. I was sure to give them time to do their set ups, but they were watching me so they could start tearing down and setting up as soon as I put ribbons down.

Then at lunch there was a fun class to be judged for paint horses only. This took over an hour - plus we had lunch so there was a good hour and a half of non-class time there.

I had a meeting at 5:30p (was getting a private showing of Smarty Jones for an upcoming project) which of course I didn't make. The show got over at 7:30p.

There were NUMEROUS auction items which were donated from a variety of artists - including D'Arry Jone Frank. Only a few of these items (out of probably 10 or so) made the reserves. She announced that they would be sold on ebay.

I got home and emailed Christy what my gas expense was. It was $120 something dollars and some change. No response. I emailed her again. No response. Finally on October 22 she paypal'd me $50 and said that was all she could afford because she didn't make as much on the show and it ran late (like running late had anything to do with what she took in?!?!) and that she didn't make as much as she thought she would on the mini resin that Linda York did for her (like that's my fault?). She said I had agreed to pick up part of the expense of the gas and since my hotel was being picked up by the group that I had business with in town that I guess I should just assume that her stiffing me on the gas ok?!

I told her that she was to pay the gas and the hotel I was taking care of (my business associate took care of it, but regardless, she didn't have to). I thought it was fair that since I was there for two business transactions that each group take 1/2 the expenses versus one group getting the whole bill and the other getting a freebee out of me. The other party definately had the higher bill.....what kind of moron does she think I am to think I would drive 9 hours ONE WAY to judge a show for $50?! Hell, I even took a day off work to drive there!

I told her she needs to put those auction items up for sale to raise the funds to pay her expenses before she gives money to the charity that she was giving the profits of the show to. I let D'Arry know about all this and she is asking for her donation back and she will sell it herself.

I still was not paid, no response from her, and the auction items have never been sold (I keep watching because one was D'Arry's).

So - those artists who donated to her show - I guess I would recommend that you ask for your unsold item back - looks to me like she pocketed herself a bunch of nice customers and other great model items, didn't pay her expenses for the event, and cheated the horse rescue group charity.

I'm a little frosted about this.....it is people like this that make me not want to donate to shows (unless I know the person and know they are trustworthy) and this will definately end my driving across the country to judge as well.....it really ticks me off that people do this in our hobby and that they use a charity as their smoke screen.

NAMSHA - I would question letting a show held by Cristy in the future being a NAN qualifier....NAMSHA doesn't need to be putting their name with showholders like this.

....off my pedistool....

MGR
11-10-2004, 11:24 AM
she paypal'd me $50 and said that was all she could afford because she didn't make as much on the show and it ran late (like running late had anything to do with what she took in?!?!) and that she didn't make as much as she thought she would on the mini resin that Linda York did for her (like that's my fault?).
Maybe she had to pay extra to the event location for going overtime.

triplebdesigns
11-10-2004, 11:59 AM
Maybe she did - but I was an expense as well. Why should I have to suffer. And the fact that she pocketed the donations from various artists and didn't bother to sell them to PAY her expenses...that is just wrong.

Heather
11-10-2004, 12:53 PM
Well, IMO if a showholder commits to compensating judges like that - they should keep their word. When a judge is asked to judge and is told ahead of time what the compensation will be, I would guess that the compensation plays a role in the judge's decision whether or not they are willing to forfeit work, etc., to come judge.

When I had my DK Live, we told the judges we would pay for their airfare, and lodging. (We got *really* lucky with some really kickass donations). We then went on to pay for a few meals, but it wasn't something we promised them before hand - it was like an added perk. I PayPaled people that were driving in to judge their gas money BEFORE the show. I even PayPaled one shower who wasn't going to rent a car - her shuttle fare ahead of time. I don't think it's fair to assume any judge'll front money and then get compensated, but that's just me.

I don't know about all the donations - but in my opinion, if a showholder receives donations, they'd BETTER get rid of them (publicly) and put the money where it's supposed to go - where they publicly said it's going to go. I hear so much about shows being held for charity and the charity never getting the money (not saying she did this, just commenting on the practice in general) and it's a real bummer.

MBPearls
11-10-2004, 06:57 PM
Heather - DK Live was an awesome show... hoping for it again in 2005! :woohoo

Lisa - that is crap. So you were there for something else as well... who cares? She told you she would reimburse you for gas, and she needs to stick by that promise. And the fact she hasn't auctioned off the other donations is even more :bs - how do we know she didn't set the reserves ridiculously high so they wouldn't make it?

It's amazing what kind of people are in this hobby, really. :upset

triplebdesigns
11-11-2004, 11:07 PM
She announced at the show - when the silent auction items didn't make reserve that she would put them on ebay in the next week or two. (People there just were the spending type). The reserves I don't think were unreasonable, just not a lot of shoppers there.

I keep watching for the D'Arry horse to show up on ebay....because then I will know her Ebay ID, but I haven't seen it. I was telling D'Arry about this....

D'Arry said that Cristy called her about 2 weeks after the show and told her that the horse sold for $100 at the show. D'Arry mentioned it was a 50% donation and Cristy apparently pleaded stupid and said she would send D'Arry her cut. Needless to say, D'Arry never received it.

I was at the show...the horse didn't sell. When I told Cristy that could probably get $150 - $175 for it easy on ebay was like, "...that's a great idea. Guess I have a lot to put up." Not only is she a dishonest person for shafting me....but lies too!!

If anyone donated to her show, I would demand to know who got the items and what they sold for. And if they didn't sell, get your stuff back. Auction it yourself and give it the humane society (her alledged charity).

I got a private message from a hobby newbie...apparently Cristy screwed them on a $350 horse - the person paid, Cristy never sent it....

MBPearls
11-12-2004, 12:48 AM
Wow. I hope everyone who donated to her show can recoup their losses. :upset

seventhdream
11-12-2004, 03:33 AM
I got a private message from a hobby newbie...apparently Cristy screwed them on a $350 horse - the person paid, Cristy never sent it....

This all strikes me as very odd - especially this last statement. Not too long ago, I sent Cristy Brown $1500 and got a box full of rare hard to find models that were in better shape than she described, and prettier than in the pictures she had sent me. Not only that, but after relieving her of a portion of her collection, she was more than kind enough to make special arrangements to meet with me in person at that years BF, and after taking me out to meet her real horses, cut me a hell of a deal on another small portion of her collection.

Iluvdrafters
11-12-2004, 09:53 AM
This is very disappointing to hear. :(

Regardless of how the show did or didnt do, you should've been paid the agreed upon amount. As hard as people say it is to get judges, I would think that for all the work involved, you doing it just for the gas (especially after driving so far), was more than reasonable. Wow! If nothing else, maybe she couldve offered to pay in 'time payments' if money was that tight. Fact is, an obligation is an obligation. Once the promise is made, it shouldnt be gone back on.

DragonsGateCustoms
11-13-2004, 11:34 AM
OK, this is the first time I have ever posted here since I joined but I couldn't let all the stuff being said about Cristy and MHM 04 keep going without throwing in some facts. I worked side by side with Cristy putting Model Horse Mania 2004 together. We worked extremely hard to make this the best Model Horse Mania ever. Boy, were we ever disappointed. First off, let me say that Cristy has not "pocketed" ANY of the proceeds or donations that were made to MHM. There are still several donations that were promised that still have not been received and she is waiting for those items so that she can list all of the items to Ebay at one time. It is simpler that way. As soon as these last donations arrive, you will see all of the items that did not meet reserve at the show and the items that have arrived since the show on Ebay. As for the CM that D'Arry donated, that item did meet reserve. The reserve was set at the beginning of the show. Cristy was not informed that it was only a 50% donation until almost the very end of the show. When she approached D'Arry at the Artisan Showcase, D'Arry didn't say anything at the time to let her know that it would only be a 50% donation. I know this for a fact as I was standing right beside her at the time. It was an awesome donation from D'Arry and greatly appreciated. Lisa, why didn't you let Cristy know when you arrived that the donation was only 50%, then a higher reserve could have been set. Why did you wait until the show was almost over? Was she supposed to tell the person with the high bid that" Hey, even though you met the reserve on this item, you can't have it because we need more money because it's only a 50% donation and we didn't know until just now?" I don't know about anyone else, but that sure would have made steam come out of my ears if I had been the high bidder. Also, as for her "stiffing" you on your gas money, I saw the first email you sent when you responded to the post for judges. You stated that since you were going to be in town for business that Cristy would only have to pay 1/2 your gas. I distinctly remember reading that email. She also offered you a place to stay, free of charge, which you turned down. You also emailed Cristy after the show and told her she could pay you whatever the show could afford towards your gas. That email was printed out and saved. I can send you a copy if you'd like. One last question for you, Lisa. If you knew you had an appointment for a private showing of Smarty Jones on October 2nd, why did you even volunteer to judge after seeing the classlist and knowing that it was going to be a long show or why didn't you mention it when you arrived? Cristy probably could have worked around it somehow. You waited until the show was well under way and then announced to the whole showhall that we were keeping you from your private showing.

To all of you who have condemmed Cristy without hearing both sides of the story, I encourage you to keep an eye on Ebay. The auctions WILL happen just as soon as all the items arrive and the money will most definitely be donated to the Humane Society. You can also expect to hear from Cristy herself. She just found out about this "situation" this morning and unfortunately is working 2 of her 3 jobs today and won't have time to get on her computer until tomorrow(Sunday) when she will finally have some time off. She will be replying to this thread and you will get to hear her side of the story. There is another side to this besides Ms. Bickfords. I have been friends with Cristy for 5 years and I can tell you that she is one of the most honest people in this hobby. In the 5 years that I have known her, she has never cheated anyone!

Donna Wilkins

spookhorse01
11-13-2004, 11:45 PM
You've got me out of the woodwork and it's really annoying but I've got some things to say regarding Lisa B's post about Cristy Brown.

>I got to the show an hour late (accident on the highway - they had black >ice!!) and a few showers were a little late as well due to accidents on the >roads and ice. (so weird to see ice in KY in October). Anywhoo...I get to >the show thinking I would see my first class on the table so I can get >crackin' and get movin'.

Lisa- first little thing, hon, there ain't no black ice in KY in October not even on the highway. See, 'black ice" is as follows: As cars in freezing weather stop at stop lights/stop signs/yields and such, teeny amounts of condensation drip from the tailpipes onto the road. It accumulates and freezes into superslick, thin, chemical-laced patches of ice which cars then skid through as they apply their brakes. So they don't occur on highways and they don't occur in non-freezing weather. October 2nd, 2004 was not bad even for this poor displaced Florida gal. Oh yeah, you weren't even ON on highway, just little ol Circle 4/New Circle Rd and Nicholasville Rd- home of NO TRAFFIC TO SPEAK OF on Saturday mornings. And any accidents that occur on those roads always get put in the local newspaper, still waiting to hear about it, BTW.

>I'm there a good 45 minutes or so before my first class is called to the >tables. So now the show is 2 hours late getting started.

The show started 2 hours late as we were waiting on you. The judge from Louisville who was detained due to a real accident on I-64 still arrived before you. Got a little extra beauty sleep at the HIN didn't ya?

>I had a meeting at 5:30p (was getting a private showing of Smarty Jones >for an upcoming project) which of course I didn't make. The show got over >at 7:30p.

So how long have you been judging/showing again, Lisa? Seems to me by now you outta know better than to schedule anything on the same day as a liveshow with a decent classlist... 7:30 isn't bad considering how late we started because of waiting for you. Heck I got out of a show at 10pm last weekend!

>I got home and emailed Christy what my gas expense was. It was $120 >something dollars and some change. No response. I emailed her again. No >response. Finally on October 22 she paypal'd me $50 and said that was all >she could afford because she didn't make as much on the show and it ran >late (like running late had anything to do with what she took in?!?!) and >that she didn't make as much as she thought she would on the mini resin >that Linda York did for her (like that's my fault?). She said I had agreed to >pick up part of the expense of the gas and since my hotel was being picked >up by the group that I had business with in town that I guess I should just >assume that her stiffing me on the gas ok?!

>I told her that she was to pay the gas and the hotel I was taking care of
>(my business associate took care of it, but regardless, she didn't have to). >I thought it was fair that since I was there for two business transactions >that each group take 1/2 the expenses versus one group getting the whole >bill and the other getting a freebee out of me. The other party definately >had the higher bill.....what kind of moron does she think I am to think I >would drive 9 hours ONE WAY to judge a show for $50?! Hell, I even took >a day off work to drive there!

Now I know alot about what's going on here and suffice to say there are saved emails which substantiate Cristy's claims about the deal on gas, etc. They don't put your claims into a good light, though. But I'll let Cristy comment on it when she gets a chance to get on here and defend herself tomorrow.

>I told her she needs to put those auction items up for sale to raise the >funds to pay her expenses before she gives money to the charity that she >was giving the profits of the show to. I let D'Arry know about all this and >she is asking for her donation back and she will sell it herself.

D'Arry is not asking for it back. Maybe I should call her and let her know her "friend" is using her name in vain?

>I still was not paid, no response from her, and the auction items have >never been sold (I keep watching because one was D'Arry's).

>So - those artists who donated to her show - I guess I would recommend >that you ask for your unsold item back - looks to me like she pocketed >herself a bunch of nice customers and other great model items, didn't pay >her expenses for the event, and cheated the horse rescue group charity.

Well, I guess at this point you should be keeping your recommendations to yourself. It has only been 6 weeks since the show and Cristy still has not rec'd several donations. Now we aren't talking donation that someone said "yea, I'll send you whatever I have on my shelf" These are donations from artists that Cristy sent the bodies to. Bodies I might add that Cristy bought and paid for herself as a donation to the show- several of them from me.

>I'm a little frosted about this.....it is people like this that make me not want >to donate to shows (unless I know the person and know they are >trustworthy) and this will definately end my driving across the country to >judge as well.....it really ticks me off that people do this in our hobby and >that they use a charity as their smoke screen.

It really ticks me off that people in our hobby would stoop so low as to lie about another person when they didn't get what they wanted when their wants changed after the fact and after something was agreed upon.

Then we won't even get into the "50% donation" now will we? There's a few things you aren't punctual for, including letting people know about these things in a timely manner.

>NAMSHA - I would question letting a show held by Cristy in the future >being a NAN qualifier....NAMSHA doesn't need to be putting their name with >showholders like this.

NAMSHA has nothing to do with this, all NAMSHA does is allow a show to be a qualifier for NAN if it follows a few simple rules: pay a set fee, use NAMSHA's core classlist, and return results within a set timeframe. NAMSHA specifically does not want to become the "hobby police"

I have know Cristy now for 7 years and at no time has Cristy "screwed" me. She has been involved in charity events before and has not "screwed" them. It really pains me to see this going on as I know how hard Cristy worked on this show- she sweated over the best local charity, spent hours on awards, cooked and prepared food, spent tons of money that will never be paid back to her despite the fact that it could be construed as a "show expense" Cristy has all she wants and needs without having to resort to stealing from starved horses at the Jessamine County Humane Society.

Thanks for casting the shadow of the Leaning Tower of Lisa B over a great show!

Sincerely and truthfully, I am
Shannon de Waal
Winchester, KY

BearsnBugs
11-14-2004, 12:00 AM
Lisa- first little thing, hon, there ain't no black ice in KY in October not even on the highway. See, 'black ice" is as follows: As cars in freezing weather stop at stop lights/stop signs/yields and such, teeny amounts of condensation drip from the tailpipes onto the road. It accumulates and freezes into superslick, thin, chemical-laced patches of ice which cars then skid through as they apply their brakes. So they don't occur on highways and they don't occur in non-freezing weather.


Absolutely nothing to do with this thread.

I just want to say here that this is not entirely correct. Black ice does indeed happen on highways. Happens all the time here in MI. I can think of several occasions that I've been on highways in MI and encountered it. Experienced it for the very first time on I-275, in fact. It's one of the reasons driving in MI winters can be so treacherous (not to mention the people that have completely forgotten how to drive in snow since the last winter...)

You do have to have freezing conditions, this is correct. But, black ice can occur anywhere, the conditions just have to be right.

Tina

triplebdesigns
11-14-2004, 01:36 AM
I called Christy at 8:30am as I was sitting on the Circle around Lexington and asked her how far I was (she said I was about 15 miles). There was an accident - I couldn't avoid that. It is greasy on the road or maybe the guy was drunk, I don't know. When I got to the show, the shower who was held up on I-64 said it was black ice. I was a little shocked myself as I thought it was cool out, but not that cool and a few others said that indeed Kentucky does get it sometimes that early in the year. As the accident on the Circle caused by the black ice? I don't know. But it did slow up traffic quite a bit. I got to the show as fast as I could. The other shower pulled in right before or right after me (can't remember which). But had the accident not been there, I would have been maybe 15 minutes late. Sorry - I would have told the clean up crews to kick it up a notch I guess.

As for the 50% donation. When I got there I dug the horse out of my things and gave it to Cristy and told her it was a 50% donation from D'Arry. She told me "Thanks for telling me, I didn't know". She then asked me what to put for a reserve, which I said $150 but I don't know what she did put for a reserve on the horse. All I do know is at the end of the show she said it didn't make reserve and that is when I told her it would probably fetch a nice price on ebay.

Cristy and I did chat quickly when I got there and she wanted to settle up with the gas then. But the show was already behind and I wanted to get things moving. Maybe I shouldn't have. But I prefer to be paid after I do the work.

My private showing of Smarty - really sucked I missed it. I now have another trip planned to Lexington for this and to get the business done that couldn't be done before. I didn't stay with Cristy as I did have 2 meetings Friday night and I didn't think that it would be polite to stay at her house and then not be there because I was on other business. And really, I didn't know Cristy at all so I was a little uncomfortable staying with her. Had I not had other business to attend to it may have been different because I would have had time then at her house to chat and such.

Why did I plan the Smarty showing the same time as the show? I really wasn't planning for the Smarty showing until about 48 hours before the show even happened. The other business I was there for didn't involve seeing him. That was a very nifty bonus to the trip which unfortunately didn't happen.

As for the 1/2 the gas...when I was finally emailed back, which was after I snail mailed out a copy of the receipts, Cristy told me that she could only afford to pay $50 (not even 1/2) and it was coming out of her own pocket. That is when I mentioned to her to sell the auction items which didn't meet reserve at the show (there were quite a few).

I don't expect to get paid for my expenses, nor will I judge a show for her again. I hate to do that. Getting judges is difficult and unfortunately situations like this happen and that is what sours judges from traveling. Taking time out of our lives, our jobs, and expenses incurred is a lot to ask of someone so they can be stooped over a table of plastic ponies for hours and hours. I don't think gas expenses are unreasonable - especially when I was driving in 8-9 hours. My other business - was planned because I was going to be in the area (which is why my hotel was picked up by the other party).

Unfortunately chain of events kept the show from starting right on time....the whole show didn't have to be put on hold because I was late, my classes, yet, but not the whole show, but that was Cristy's decision to do that. But the classes were made up in pretty good time, but the really long lunch break again set it way behind.

I don't know if there is resolution to this.....

seventhdream
11-14-2004, 02:31 AM
I didn't stay with Cristy as I did have 2 meetings Friday night and I didn't think that it would be polite to stay at her house and then not be there because I was on other business.

Ok, so in your previous post, you said you had to take a day off work to drive to judge Cristy's show. (To refresh your memory, I quote "what kind of moron does she think I am to think I would drive 9 hours ONE WAY to judge a show for $50?! Hell, I even took a day off work to drive there!") Now you say you had 2 meetings on Friday night with other business you were to be in Lexington for.

Wouldn't you have had to have taken the day off work to drive to KY to get to those meetings even if you weren't judging? So how exactly is it Cristy's fault that you had to take a day off to drive to judge her show when you were already going to be in Lexington the night before the show?

And if you say it wasn't her fault, fine, but WHY even bring that up, unless it was merely to smear Cristy's good name and insult her show even more than you already have? If you disagree about the gas money arrangements, fine. But IMO, insulting her show because it ran late and had a longish lunch break is just petty, and gives less credibility to your whole story.

seventhdream
11-14-2004, 02:36 AM
As for the 1/2 the gas...when I was finally emailed back, which was after I snail mailed out a copy of the receipts, Cristy told me that she could only afford to pay $50 (not even 1/2) and it was coming out of her own pocket..

So your total gas expenses were $120 (again taken from your original post). You were paid $50. If you had agreed to half the gas expenses, it seems to me she owes you $10. Would THAT resolve the situation for you?

MBPearls
11-14-2004, 03:23 AM
I guess everyone in Colorado is an idiot, because we call black ice the ice that builds up that isn't readily seen... the thin layer that causes quite a few fender benders. Who knew?

HeyMedic
11-14-2004, 04:17 AM
History for Lexington, Kentucky (http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=38.05995178,-84.60301971)
on Saturday, October 2, 2004


Actual Average Record Temperature Mean Temperature 59 F / 15 C 62 F / 16 C Max Temperature 68 F / 20 C 73 F / 22 C 91 F / 32 C (1953) Min Temperature 50 F / 10 C 52 F / 11 C 31 F / 0 C (1974)

Cristy Brown
11-14-2004, 03:40 PM
Good Morning Everyone, Since I am the current topic of conversation I thought it would be best to give you all my version of the events in question. This is going to be very long and I will most likely have to divide it into several posts. Please be patient with me since I have never had to defend my rep before, I want to make sure I tell my side completely and accurately. Since I have never posted here before and some of you don't know me, let me give you a bit of info on me.....

My name is Cristy Brown and I have collected anything that is horse shaped for as long as I can remember. I took a break from major collecting to show my real horses in high school and then college life didn't leave much room for them either. I got married in 1995 and in 1996, the Breyer bug bit me hard again. I learned about live showing and Breyerfest and from 1996 to 2001, I increased my collection from 50 to about 500, customs and resins included. I fell real hard for those darn cute mini resins. I started live showing as well and in 2001, my first NAN, I won several cookies. Now I was back into horse mode and I wanted the real ones. In 2001, after NAN, I started dispersing my collection. I bought some real horses and that is where I am at now. I, along with a bunch of friends, started the show that has evolved into Model Horse Mania several years ago in Georgetown Ky. I cannot remember the exact year but it was the ETTA benefit show and I know it was at least 5 years ago, maybe more. I moved MHM to Nicholasville Ky when I moved there and the church in Georgetown decided not to allow any more outside events to be held there as they were staying very busy and then finding that they did not have time to hold their own events at the church as it was always booked. I also took over the job of being showholder because I was the one not showing very much if at all. I wanted to keep having the show once a year so that local showers could have a show close to home if they could not make it to outside shows. MHM has a wonderful following and there has never been a problem like this in the history of the show. Last year on July 19th, I lost my beautiful if not a tad cranky Paint mare, Abbi in a tragic accident that paralyzed her left front leg. She was only 4 years old. My husband and I spared no expense in trying to save her but it was not to be. It was decided soon after that MHM 2004 would be a benefit in her memory. It took over a year to plan this special show. My expectations for this show were very high. I agonized over every decision. I wanted it to be perfect. I solicitated for donations at Breyerfest and was so overwhelmed with contributions including buying bodies and paying friends to prep them and then I sent them to artists to be customized and then returned. I guess it is true, no good deed goes unpunished.........

Now my reply to Lisa's post......

I was at Breyerfest 2004 in the Artisans Gallery asking for donations. Shannon de Waal was with me and introduced me to D'Arry. She was very kind and agreed to a donation. She even said she would do something special for the show. During the conversation with D'Arry, my other friend, Donna Wilkins walked up and joined us. At no time what so ever did D'Arry ever say it would be a 50% donation. I had never had a donation from D'Arry before so I don't know if she usually does a percentage donation or not. Unfortunately, D'Arry does not have internet access and cannot verify this herself. I thanked D'Arry again and moved on to the next artist.

Due to an unfortunate series of events, I lost the OF judge I had already lined up for MHM. I do most of my postings on Haynext Exchange and Model Horse so any of you can go check the archives and verify my posts. In late August, both Donna and I posted to the lists looking for a judge........here is what we posted........

Benefits will include accomodations in a private home,
a judges gift, meal(s) at the show, free showing in
any division you do not judge and $ to either cover
your expenses in full if possible or at least help to
cut the costs of travel. There will also be a special
run mini resin offered at the show and the judge is
also eligible for door prizes, any special prizes
along with any raffles and auctions where you need to
be present to win.


The show is going to be held in Nicholasville, KY (about 15 miles from
Lexington) on October 2nd, 2004 and is a 100% of the proceeds charity donation
show. We are offering our judges Free Lodging, A Judges Gift, Lunch the day of
the show, Free Showing in all divisions not being judged by you, help with
travel expenses and Lots & Lots of Fun.

Now, this what I have always offered my judges every year. Some of my previous judges have been Lorrie Franz, Mary Vineyard and Ronni Marcum. Ronni and Lorrie stayed with me and Mary stayed with Donna. There was never a problem with like this with any of them. I didn't have a problem with the other two judges that judged at MHM 04 either.

I got several replies including Lisa's. Lisa was very nice to talk with in these emails. She told me that she would be in the area that weekend on business and that she would be interested in judging. She told me she had some business in Louisville concerning Gallopalooza but never at any time mentioned any other business. I had no idea about her private showing of Smarty Jones till we were more than half way thru the show and she announces to the show hall that she hopes we know she is missing a private showing of Smarty because of this show. I felt horrible and told her I could get her another one. My boss is a vet in Lexington and had recently had a private showing arranged for his sisters who were visiting from Colorado. I thought it was a showing for personal pleasure, I did not know till her posts on this and other lists that it was business related. Lisa also told me that since she was coming to this area on business, I (the show) would only be responsible for half the gas expenses. We mutually agreed to these arrangements and that was that. During the next several weeks, I talked with Lisa. She would be bringing D'Arry's donation. She told me she would need directions to the show. It was shortly before the show when I emailed her the directions that I found out she would not be staying with me but at the HIN. I had emailed her and asked her if she knew where the hotel was as she said she would be coming in from Louisville and I thought it would be something easy for her to find. She said she did and if fact, that is where she would be staying. She said that she would be spending her nights there and not taking advantage of the spare room in my home but that she would cover the costs and she did not expect the show to pick up the tab. I was fine with that, it was her choice. I gave her directions from HIN to the show hall and asked her to be there between 7:30 and 7:45 am as we always have a question and answer session at 7:45 am and that way she would be there to answer any questions concerning her division. She said that would not be a problem and that was the last time I talked to her till the day of the show. I also asked my other judges to be there at that time and they were.

Stay tuned for part 2

Cristy Brown
Showholder MHM 2004

Cristy Brown
11-14-2004, 03:43 PM
The day of MHM 2004.....

I arrived at the show hall at 6:30 am to start my long day. I had reserved the show hall for the day before as well so that most of the major set up was done on Friday. Now, my times are accurate as I have detailed cell bill and I will be happy to print anyone a copy and send it to you. At 6:45 am, I get a call on my cell from a shower saying that there was a bad accident on I-64 and that it was closed and she would be late but she would be there. At this time, I do not remember what caused the accident. I told her we would work with her as best possible and I found out what her first class was and offered to move that class a little farther down the classlist to help. She said she would be there ASAP. At 7:45 am, still no Lisa. At 8:15am I am panicing (sp?). I called the HIN at 8:21am and asked for her room. I was connected and the phone was picked up and then hung right back up. Another call was placed at 8:22 and there was no answer to that one. At 8:46am, I get a call from Lisa. She is stuck in traffic on New circle road. Mind you, this is a full hour after I had asked her to be there. If she had been on time and then stuck in traffic, I would guesstimate that she would have called me about 7:30 am. Lisa arrived at the show hall between sometime between 9 and 9:30 am. I am sorry that I don't remember the exact time but I hope you can imagine just how frazzled I really was. What happens if you hold a model show and the judge for you biggest division is a no show? I will say though that many showers and friends stepped forward and offered to put their show strings aside and judge and for that, I am very grateful. Finally, Lisa arrived and I would have to say that the show got underway around 9:30 am. Maybe I could have started some of the other divisions earlier, maybe I should have. But I didn't. I was judging one of the early divisions and could not necessairly judge my division and deal with this current situation at the same time. When Lisa arrived, she did give me D'Arrys donation and I did ask her opinion as to what reserve to put on it for the auction at the show. She told me it would bring more money on ebay. I told her it might but I wanted to give the showers at the show a chance at it first. I didn't want to put all the good donations on ebay and not give the showers who support MHM a chance to win something very nice, either in the auction or raffle. So I put a reserve on the custom HR filly and into the auction she went. Keep in mind, this entire time, I am still under the impression that she is a 100% donation. And, if the donation did not reach reserve, then I would have taken her home and listed her on ebay. Her reserve was a modest 75.00. I did not set the reserves too high on anything. That would have defeated the purpose of MHM. I think that was one of the highest reserves I had set as well. I then go up to Lisa and ask her how much I owed her in gas $, she tells me and I quote "Don't worry about it." The show went on as planned and when it was over, Lisa left and gas money for Lisa had not been discussed again. To be honest, I was busy and forgot and Lisa never approached me. Shortly before I was to end the auctions and well after lunch. I was informing showers that I would be ending the auctions soon. I would have to guess that this was sometime between 4 and 5 pm. A full 6 hours at least since Lisa had been at the show and given me the donation. Lisa then says to me "you know D'Arry's donation is a 50% donation?" I told her I was not informed of that fact and she then said "consider yourself informed." I immediately go to the auction table to pull the HR custom but she has met reserve. It was my choice to not pull the mini. I would not do that to the person who was high bidder. I would call D'Arry myself and explain the situation. Never did I tell Lisa that the donation was not sold.

As for the long lunch. Yes, it was 1 1/2 hours long. That is when the PainteDreemz challenge was supposed to be judged and the games were played and special prizes were given out. Last year, I asked showers would they rather have a longer lunch and do all the extras there or have me do them thruout the day. They voted that they would rather have the longer lunch. No one else complained but I did have a shower leave as the show ran long. Granted we were still done around 7 to 8 pm.

I did get Lisa's email about her gas expenses on 10-5...here it is......


I didn't get a chance to give you my receipts while I was there - I know you wanted to get the show hall cleaned up and such and get goin'.

But my gas receipts were:
$28.75
$32.71
$31.65
$34.00
Total: $127.11

If you could pay whatever your show could afford that would be fine. You can either send payment or paypal (paypal is the same as this email).

I had a great time and got to finally put some names to some faces! :-)

Lisa Bickford


I was resposible for 1/2 of that money which would make it 64.00. She mentioned that I could pay her what the show could afford and since the show did not make as much as hoped, I sent her 50.00. Out of my own pocket. Next I get another email from Lisa saying I owe her all of the money. Here it is.....

Actually, the agreement was I would pick up the hotel and you would pick up the gas. I have to say, I understand that you want to give to the charity, but you have to pay expenses BEFORE any funds go to the charity.

I totally will not ever come to that show again. I realize the late start - which I wish I could have prevented. But after I got there, everyone sat around for another 30-45 minutes. I would expecting to walk in and have all the rings but mine in progress, only to find out that mine were not even set up yet. I got there at 9:15 - barely over an hour late. The 1.5 hour lunch break did not help the speed of the show. I went through my classes to catch up, not realizing that regardless of what I did the lunch break would delay the show even more.

My recommendation would be to put up the D'Arry mini on ebay and pay my other portion of my expenses from that. D'Arry gets 1/2 of that piece - which she has asked about and it has been quite some time already since the show and I have not seen any of the auction pieces being sold that did not make reserve.

Yes, I picked up the hotel because I was there on business, but because the excessive lunch break delayed the show, I missed one of my business meetings, which I have to again make a trip to Kentucky. I rearranged part of my meetings around your show, which ended up not working out. I think that asking for the gas to be paid is not unreasonable considering it is a 8 hour drive.

I would expect that after pieces are auctioned that I would be paid the rest. I normally would have been paid by the other party (my meeting associates) for my expenses, but since I was there for dual purposes, you were responsible for 1/2 and them the other 1/2 - which their's was by far more than yours and I didn't get the time with them that was anticipated.

I would hope that in good conscience that you would ensure that my gas expenses are paid. Getting judges in the future will be very difficult if you do not ensure the judges are taken care of.

Lisa Bickford

Unfortunately, I don't have Lisa's emails from the very beginning. I never expected anything like this to ever happen. She told me that I only owed half the gas as she was coming in to Louisville for Gallopalooza. She had asked for directions from Louisville. I never knew anything about the Smarty business. She had two meetings and the Smarty thing just came up right before she was to leave. They paid for her hotel and I paid for half the gas and I don't know who paid for the other half of the gas. I don't know if the two meetings she had were about different things or the same. Seems to me if they were different, she was trying to accomplish 4 things while in town. Gallopalooza, MHM, Smarty and whatever the other meeting was for. I really don't know. Or maybe the two meeting she had on Friday were about separate things and then she would have killed 5 birds with one stone. I don't begrude Lisa trying to get as much done as possible in one trip. But don't drag me thru the mud and MHM pay for her lack of planning.

Cristy Brown
Showholder 2004

Cristy Brown
11-14-2004, 03:43 PM
For those of you who didn't catch it, I will point it out. The above email that Lisa sent me on October 23 mentions

"I normally would have been paid by the other party (my meeting associates) for my expenses, but since I was there for dual purposes, you were responsible for 1/2 and them the other 1/2 - which their's was by far more than yours and I didn't get the time with them that was anticipated."

But in the posts she put out on this list and other(s)(?) she says....and I quote "I told her that she was to pay the gas and the hotel I was taking care of (my business associate took are of it, but regardless, she didn't have to). I thought it was fair that since I was there for two business transactions that each group take 1/2 the expenses versus one group getting the whole bill and the other getting a freebe out of me. The other party definately had the higher bill..."

I really have no idea how many things Lisa was trying to do while in town. She said the Smarty thing came up at the last moment....so was it 3 or 4 or 5 meetings or dealings.....however you choose to look at it MHM was not at the top of her priority list.

Lisa also says "I'm a little frosted about this....it is people like this that make me not want to donate to shows and this will definately end my driving across the country to judge as well" For the record, Lisa Bickford DID NOT donate to MHM 04. She showed up very late but still showed for free, was able to enter the raffle and eat her meals and she did get her judges gifts ( a very nice pen and a large Thoroughbred head painted by Marge Para). And Lisa, you did not drive across the country just to judge MHM. You were here for several business transactions......you have made a point of mentioning that several times........

I called D'Arry several weeks ago too. She again was very kind and we had a good conversation. She NEVER asked for her donation back! I explained the situation to her and she initially told me to just keep the money. I told her it was not my money and I would either send it to her or donate it. She told me to send it to her as she already donates to the humane society. We talked more about dogs. I just got a Aussie puppy and we were talking about herding and agility training and such. She has tons of Jack Russels and an Aussie herself. She was completely professional and kind thru the whole encounter. She said she wished she could have come to the show and we ended the conversation with her saying "Please send me a show packet for next years show. I will try to make that one." Don't know about you but that doesn't sound like someone who is ticked to me.

I have had some problems with getting donations back for the show. I have sent models out and some have not been returned. I have paid for the models, prepping and shipping to the customizer. I have also had a check returned and had to wait for the person to make good on it. Also, some of the auction items still have not been paid for and I am waiting on that. Right now, MHM is in the red. I will not say who the artists are who have not sent their donations. I know that they are having issues in their lives and it is out of character for them and I will not make things more difficult for them by adding them to this mess.

Ok, I have many things going on in my life like most of you do. I have three jobs (I full 45- 50 hours a week and two part time jobs) I also do pet sitting when I can. I have a husband, 3 dogs, 2 cats and 2 horses. Time is always an issue. I was simply waiting on the rest of the donations so that I could list them all at the same time. And hopefully get them shipped out about the same time too. I was just trying to make my life a little easier in that respect. I have no intentions of ripping anyone (artist, MHM or the humane society off). I have excellent feedback on ebay and for the most part minus three occasions, I have great transactions in the hobby since 1996. I have one full day off a week and this is it. I didn't plan on spending hours in front of the computer answering Lisa's accusations but here I am.

And thank you to the person who posted the temps in Lexington for October 2nd. I was looking for that info. And I did look in the Sunday paper for info about the accident that kept Lisa held up for over an hour and there was no mention of it. And FYI, today, the middle of November, the current temp is over 40.

I don't spend alot of time on the computer anymore. I learned what Lisa was saying from a friend. I had to join two lists just to reply. I have had many people email me with their support and I appreciate it. Many have asked that I don't let this affect the next MHM. Lisa says finding good judges is hard. She is not kidding. I found two out of three this year.

So now I will allow the court of public opinion make its decision about me. Both lists have rules about flaming and nasty posts. I don't have to be nasty or make things up. I have given you the facts and if you still feel that Lisa is right about me and the events in question, then so be it.

I apologize for this being so so so long. These are the facts. I think I have proven my point but I will be happy to reply to any private or public questions.

Thank you for your time,

Cristy Brown
showholder MHM 2004

Cristy Brown
11-14-2004, 03:56 PM
Hello, it is me again. I will now address Lisa's post that a newbie emailed her and said I ripped her off of 350.00. She said she sent the money but I never sent the horse.

Ok, I went back in the Haynet Exchange archives for over a year. I looked at every sales post I put out. I have not had a horse listed for more than 300.00 for over a year. I question the accusation because the person would not give their name and how long do you consider a person a newbie in the hobby. I went back a year in posts....if a person bought this horse from me more than a year ago, would they still be considered a newbie?

Please feel free to check my posts on the archives yourself. I have not changed my ebay id, email addy or yahoo addy in years, if ever. I have nothing to hide.

I have sold many horses since 2001 when I decided to disperse my collection. The most was for 1500.00 and they go down from there. I have had three transactions that did not work out well and that is it. I will be happy to give the facts on those minus names if you wish.

And, if someone ripped you off of 350.00, would you not go thru legal channels to get your money back. I once got ripped off of 35.00 and filed mail fraud chagres and got my money back. BTW, this was one of my three bad transactions.

Since I am not in hiding from anyone and have been on the boards publically for a very long time, this person would have no trouble finding me and filing charges against me. Yet, that has not happened....I did not let 35.00 go and I surely would not let 350.00 go....

I am done for now with my replies....

Cristy Brown

DrafterGirl
11-14-2004, 03:59 PM
LOL thats a lot of writing

Renee527
11-14-2004, 04:12 PM
This all strikes me as very odd - especially this last statement. Not too long ago, I sent Cristy Brown $1500 and got a box full of rare hard to find models that were in better shape than she described, and prettier than in the pictures she had sent me. Not only that, but after relieving her of a portion of her collection, she was more than kind enough to make special arrangements to meet with me in person at that years BF, and after taking me out to meet her real horses, cut me a hell of a deal on another small portion of her collection.

Above all.. I didn't think it was kosher to be spreading 2nd and 3rd-hand accounts on this forum.

I think if the hobby newbie has a problem with this person, THEY themselves need to post here ... NOT be doing it through someone else.

There is more than just one side to any story.

Jenn Miller
11-14-2004, 04:20 PM
I guess everyone in Colorado is an idiot, because we call black ice the ice that builds up that isn't readily seen... the thin layer that causes quite a few fender benders. Who knew?
:wow LOL

I live in WA, so that makes me dumb too. Black ice is not mostly caused by tail pipe whatever you called it. Ok, roads are black or grey for the most part, and ice can form ANYWHERE! So when it's on the road and you can't see it, it's black ice. There are thousands of accidents in WA every year due to black ice. Imagine driving when you know it's frozen out, you're minding your own business going slow cause you are aware it may be there, somewhere. And all of a sudden WHAMO! There it is and your car goes skittin off the road, it SUCKS, trust me I know it's happend to me. LOL I haven't ever seen black ice at a intersection because I've just seen real ice there, the kind that's visiable.

Jenn

Jenn Miller
11-14-2004, 04:26 PM
Gonna stick my nose in here for a bit. Seems to me that Lisa is overall very unhappy with the way the show went for what ever reason. I do not personally know any of the people in question but I do see this: this is a personal issue that maybe should have been delt w' between each party. But in retrospect it was brought here for public view. I see Christy has come to defend herself as a few others have for her as well.

Gee, I sure hate it when things get messy like this. Ok, Lisa you already said that you aren't gonna do anything for her anymore, fine, drop it. I don't know if any of these other accusations are true or not but I am sure that is D'arry Anne was upset she would have contacted Christy herself. IMO

I am sorry you guys have to be upset at each other......
Ok, I am done.....

Jenn

Renee527
11-14-2004, 04:39 PM
I am sorry you guys have to be upset at each other......
Ok, I am done.....

Jenn

:wow I don't see anywhere where Christy is upset with Lisa.. it's more like the other way around. Christy just came here to defend herself, as well she should.
But she handled her end of it nicely. Let me also add, I have never personally met either of these girls, so I am not friends with either.

I judge for cheap or free (or close to it) all the time .. or with little more than lunch or an entry comped . I do it because I enjoy it, not because I expect to be compensated at all. It's a shame that the hobby seems to have come to that. I realize that it's not cheap to travel out of state to a show -- but we are all in this because we love it right?
The compensations are nice, and a way to say thank you.. but by a person such as myself.. not expected at all.

I don't believe anyone on here is judge/jury. I don't think that Christy will have a problem getting future judges .....I'd love to come there and judge, but not sure if I could tolerate the brrrr... cold weather.

:haha

spookhorse01
11-14-2004, 06:41 PM
:wow LOL

I live in WA, so that makes me dumb too. Black ice is not mostly caused by tail pipe whatever you called it. Ok, roads are black or grey for the most part, and ice can form ANYWHERE! So when it's on the road and you can't see it, it's black ice. There are thousands of accidents in WA every year due to black ice. Imagine driving when you know it's frozen out, you're minding your own business going slow cause you are aware it may be there, somewhere. And all of a sudden WHAMO! There it is and your car goes skittin off the road, it SUCKS, trust me I know it's happend to me. LOL I haven't ever seen black ice at a intersection because I've just seen real ice there, the kind that's visiable.

Jenn

I'm not calling anyone dumb for not knowing this definition of black ice (which was forwarded to me by a local meteorologist BTW) If you put "black ice" "definition" and "meteorologist" in a search engine you will come up with numerous definitions for it... the thing which all the defs have in common is that A) it takes freezing conditions and B) you're not likely to "see" it which all leads to why I made a statement about Lisa blaming black ice on the accident. In a later post she finds she must try to blame a drunk driver or whatever, she "doesn't know" Looking for excuses for her lateness... look if she overslept, fine, but admit it, say you're sorry and get on with the show. Quit blaming others for your mistakes.

Shannon de Waal

spookhorse01
11-14-2004, 07:21 PM
I called Christy at 8:30am as I was sitting on the Circle around Lexington and asked her how far I was (she said I was about 15 miles). There was an accident - I couldn't avoid that. It is greasy on the road or maybe the guy was drunk, I don't know. When I got to the show, the shower who was held up on I-64 said it was black ice. I was a little shocked myself as I thought it was cool out, but not that cool and a few others said that indeed Kentucky does get it sometimes that early in the year. As the accident on the Circle caused by the black ice? I don't know. But it did slow up traffic quite a bit. I got to the show as fast as I could. The other shower pulled in right before or right after me (can't remember which). But had the accident not been there, I would have been maybe 15 minutes late. Sorry - I would have told the clean up crews to kick it up a notch I guess.

SO you are saying above that you don't know what caused the accident but in your first post it appears to me that you would SWEAR you knew it was black ice...
Quoted:
>I got to the show an hour late (accident on the highway - they had black >ice!!) and a few showers were a little late as well due to accidents on the >roads and ice. (so weird to see ice in KY in October). Anywhoo...I get to >the show thinking I would see my first class on the table so I can get >crackin' and get movin'.


As for the 50% donation. When I got there I dug the horse out of my things and gave it to Cristy and told her it was a 50% donation from D'Arry. She told me "Thanks for telling me, I didn't know". She then asked me what to put for a reserve, which I said $150 but I don't know what she did put for a reserve on the horse. All I do know is at the end of the show she said it didn't make reserve and that is when I told her it would probably fetch a nice price on ebay.

So then why would Cristy call me and Donna up and say specifically to me: "Shannon you know D'Arry, you collect D'Arry's stuff, what do you think this is worth? What should the reserve be?" Oh I guess she forgot in that 5 minutes or so it took for you to put D'Arry's donation down and start looking for your tables to judge and unpacking your show horses.


Why did I plan the Smarty showing the same time as the show? I really wasn't planning for the Smarty showing until about 48 hours before the show even happened. The other business I was there for didn't involve seeing him. That was a very nifty bonus to the trip which unfortunately didn't happen.

Again WHY would you expect to be done in time? You can NEVER plan or expect to be done by a certain time at a liveshow. Maybe you could have tried for a Sunday showing?


Unfortunately chain of events kept the show from starting right on time....the whole show didn't have to be put on hold because I was late, my classes, yet, but not the whole show, but that was Cristy's decision to do that. But the classes were made up in pretty good time, but the really long lunch break again set it way behind.

Actually I don't think that everything was held up because of you- we had OF Chinas going I do believe and did have the first Perf classes set up as well. Cristy was worried about being stood up by you to judge so that's why she hadn't started judging the Decs yet.

Showers had wanted the long lunch and it was no worse than any other show which says they'll have an hour lunch but usually have 1 1/2-2 before things get back moving.

Let me get things straight here, for $14 you:
A) have issues with the show starting late (part of it your own fault)
B) had a long lunch (which the showers wanted)
C) you missed a meeting with Smarty (which it was dumb of you to schedule in the first place)
D) you don't think the auction items have been put up for sale fast enough (in which items are still being waited for and it's none of your business)
E) you took off a day of work to drive here (which you were taking off anyways)
F) and you assume that since Cristy has not given in to your demands that it's OK for you to take your issues to a public forum and bad-mouth Cristy

WOW, what a tally! Good to get things in perpective :wink
Shannon de Waal

NoVaPrepPro
11-14-2004, 08:15 PM
Here again is why I am such a stickler for signed agreements. No misunderstandings, no miscommunications, everything in black and white, signed and dated by all parties involved. It takes time to put the agreement together but clearing the confusion about he said/she said obviously takes much longer!

I'm glad to hear other sides to this story. Gosh knows everyone loves a good scandal, eh? I like it even better when someone ends up putting their foot in their mouth!

Stacy
11-14-2004, 08:46 PM
I have to side with Christy here, I think that in my experiance talking to her via email concerning this year's show she was very nice, and from what I heard the show was a very good time, I hope that it happens again next year, I would love to go. I find it hard to side with someone who continues to show her horses in the novice class at Breyerfest under her relitives names soley to win models.

Iluvdrafters
11-14-2004, 09:31 PM
To all of you who have condemmed Cristy without hearing both sides of the story
Donna Wilkins

You are correct here. There are two sides to every story and my post (though directed toward the situation, not knowing anything about the situatin), I should not have posted anything. Best not to get involved when a person doesnt know the situation and heaven knows, in the name of good intentions, I make enough mistakes on my own :( My apologies to Lisa, Cristy and those who wrote me personally for posting to this thread. :sorry

Now, back to enjoying the hobby and learning lessons the hard way :bolt

opalhop
11-16-2004, 01:39 PM
So.....here's a situation that is a huge bummer for lots of reasons....... It sounds like a big case of miscommunication, or misunderstanding, or whatever. There are two sides to every story.....sounds like folks on both sides of this issue have strong feelings. Welcome to the world of model horses!!! LOL. Folks in this hobby tend to be strong folk. :) I think this issues been discussed enough. Perhaps the involved parties will be able to resolve their issues now (sometimes stuff has to be made public before stuff gets worked out, for whatever reason) and we can go back to enjoying this hobby. That's my vote....for what it's worth....

And....just an FYI....I feel very bad for folks who have the expectation that "shows always run late." They have not been to one of our fabulous Californian shows before....because they OFTEN end on time. Sometimes things happen....don't get me wrong....and some well run shows will go overtime....but not usually. So...there's hope!!! :)

:)

DraytonWoods
11-17-2004, 01:31 PM
And....just an FYI....I feel very bad for folks who have the expectation that "shows always run late." They have not been to one of our fabulous Californian shows before....because they OFTEN end on time.

Yeah! I couldn't quite get this idea-- we rarely get out after 7:00! Even Fall Fiesta, the big honcho show, I was *gone* by 7.

Ya'll need to come over here and see how it's done! ;) :lol