Rydal and Isis Arabian models [Archive]

Touchstone

05-25-2009, 04:00 AM

Godolphin sent me a link to a Rydal Arabian model horse on Ebay today abd will also attach one of the Seller's photographs.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Early-PAMELA-DU-BOULAY-RYDAL-MODEL-HORSE-julip-arab_W0QQitemZ220415605434QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Co llectables_AnimalCollectables_SM

Godolphin worked on these beautiful latex models (Pebbles size) with the artist and sculpter Pamela Du Boulay in the late 1970's and not many were made during a very short time spell. Sadly I sold my collection of these beautiful Rydals when my father died suddenly in 1980 when I was buying my first house - will scan in photos from my records another time!

Seeing the Rydal on Ebay has made me realise how lucky we are now with the Breyers, Rydals and Artist Resins of today! How model horse collecting has changed.

In England until the Breyers came to Harrods in London or we imported them, we really only had the Julips or previously I liked the Isis latex model horses which company ceased in 1961! Will attach a few photos of the few I still have, two chestnut Arabians, a mare called Shamir and a stallion called Lochinvar, and a Welsh pony, Spanish Elm. Again, these are Pebble sized, but rather "slab sided" with hair manes/tails which need a comb.

Thought Blabbers might be interested to see them anyway, and I would never part with these three. Ahhhhhh

So enjoy the Breyers, Stones and resins of today and who knows what the future might bring in models!

Jane Bowell

Touchstone

05-25-2009, 04:03 AM

Keren

05-25-2009, 06:00 AM

Hi Jane - bit of a typo there...as you *really* know, the small Rydals and Isis etc models are Classic sized!

You are being horribly modest - I well remember the fact that YOU were the person who first brought Breyers into the UK hobby! Can still recall sitting by the fire in your cottage in Whitstable, looking at that AHW with the letter/photo from Ava Durbin about *her* models, and then reverently handling your 1978 Breyer catalogue, LOL!!! I bet I would never have thought back then I'd be able to walk into my feed store and come out with a Breyer as well!

I have STILL never owned an Isis, but there are gals over here who have not only found Isis models but also ones by Pegasus and Otway. How incredible is that?

I recently had the privilege of handling a small Rydal Shetland - it was a tiny thing (now that WAS about Pebble sized), yet it had far more crisp detail than I've seen in many of today's so-called "advanced" pieces. Which proves quality has nothing to do with the material, and everything to do with the sculptor!

Personally, I'd have happily swapped all my PS Arabs and then some for that little Rydal on ebay! :)

Keren

Godolphin

05-25-2009, 06:45 AM

Talk about a trip down memory lane.......! However, a couple of small corrections, the original models measured 4 1/2" at the withers and were produced in the late 1960s with the larger range (6" - 6 1/4") being produced from roughly 1970-1972 "ish". I didn't work on the small range just the larger and I wouldn't say my input was that great! Here is the brochure for the small series:
Front and back
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3568/3562790280_67a1781e6a.jpg
Inside
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3398/3562790442_b7af9e33ec.jpg
Larger Series (one sided leaflet)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2459/3562795176_054d2bd4d6.jpg
I'm very lucky to still have all mine and have an example (s) of every breed in both sizes produced (the leaflet for the larger size doesn't show the Welsh pony, Shetland pony and donkey that was also produced) including the re-modelled small Arab stallion and the Arab mare and foal made to go with him. Incidentally, Pamela never named the models it was the collectors that called them Rydals after the name of her house and so they have stayed!

Here is Marrakech, small Arab stallion
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3356/3562790126_58bff6ee7a_o.jpg
and Achernar, the large size Arab stallion
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3320/3262415709_c7b5e29db1.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3157/3071343774_daaf02fb8b.jpg

Pamela branched out into producing bronzes after this and here are just a few to show how very talented she is:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3251/3562796744_e7bb9aafbc_m.jpg
Shammah, her pure bred mare from Jordan, I had her daughter and 3 grand daughters at one stage.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3636/3561982161_51815dd2df_m.jpg
Arab mare and lance
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3624/3561982047_8cf5fc4261_m.jpg
Racing Camel
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3582/3562795774_177f06edc4.jpg
Colt and Saluki, my favourite of her bronzes which was caste in porcelain by Alchemy/Garretts of Hereford a few years ago though only 7 were produced
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3657/3562795844_1ec29c7528_o.jpg

As to Isis, I used to have 2 both now sold on, a dapple grey Arab stallion 'Sahmin' purchased from Jane and 'Black Magic' a black Shetland pony mare, wonder where they are now?

yorkhorse

05-25-2009, 08:13 AM

Wow, those large size Rydals are gorgeous!!

hi_d_hi

05-25-2009, 08:56 AM

Wow, those large size Rydals are gorgeous!!

:yeahthat

Keren

05-25-2009, 11:39 AM

Touchstone

05-25-2009, 11:47 AM

1973 was the last year of production - a date, that, for obvious reasons, was seared ineradicably into my adolescent mind!!!

I still have some large Rydal Arab bodies that I will be finishing slowly in the future - no idea on timescale at the moment thanks to still having no electricity after the fire!

I wonder who got the boy on ebay?

Keren

Hi Keren - Thanks for putting me straight about the Classic size, get a bit muddled in my dotage!

The Rydal is still on Ebay, finishes in about four and a half hours and is up to the amazing price of £520 which is:

520.00 GBP = 827.226 USD AMAZING! So now we know - anyone still with their Rydals in the UK get them insured quick!

Hope all is getting sorted after the fire, and I would love another Rydal one day, but not at that sort of price!

Jane

Keren

05-25-2009, 11:53 AM

Hi Keren - Thanks for putting me straight about the Classic size, get a bit muddled in my dotage!

The Rydal is still on Ebay, finishes in about four and a half hours and is up to the amazing price of £520 which is:

520.00 GBP = 827.226 USD AMAZING! So now we know - anyone still with their Rydals in the UK get them insured quick!

Hope all is getting sorted after the fire, and I would love another Rydal one day, but not at that sort of price!

Jane

Don't talk to me about insurance! When the loss adjuster came the other day, he practically needed oxygen when he saw just how many *books* we had, let alone the rest of our stuff - and told us to up our cover pronto. So we did, but even now I doubt it's enough!!

As to another Rydal - there may be ways and means, nudge nudge, wink wink! (And it will be FAR nicer than Antares!) :D

Keren xx

Touchstone

05-25-2009, 12:06 PM

Don't talk to me about insurance! When the loss adjuster came the other day, he practically needed oxygen when he saw just how many *books* we had, let alone the rest of our stuff - and told us to up our cover pronto. So we did, but even now I doubt it's enough!!

As to another Rydal - there may be ways and means, nudge nudge, wink wink! (And it will be FAR nicer than Antares!) :D

Keren xx

I laughed and laughed! (But not about the insurance obviously as that effects us all when things happen and I'm still chasing insurers from the damp problems I had last summer!)

Right, you're on Keren, but no rush! Meanwhile about the books ....

Jane

Keren

05-25-2009, 02:59 PM

Jane - times that by 5, and you'll get some idea, LOL!!

Keren

Melly

05-25-2009, 03:16 PM

Liz Bouras still has all her Rydals that she's amassed over the years---I think they are still pictured on her Amarna website:

http://www.psychotica.net/evb/amarna/rydals.html

Godolphin

05-25-2009, 03:17 PM

Jane - times that by 5, and you'll get some idea, LOL!!

Keren

Yeah, I'm afraid that goes for me as well, got rid of a "few" about 3 years ago - 366 if I remember rightly and it had no effect whatsoever! The stuff on Arabians runs at around 150 titles at last count and don't want to even get into the collection on the Middle East, Biographies, Religion, Ancient Egypt, Art, Natural History, North American history, English history, general horse stuff, fiction, cats, etc. etc.:drowning Too much in fact but its the legacy of working in a book shop for 11 years and coming from a family that read a lot.

But getting back to the Rydal for sale on Ebay, I have to admit I'm not happy about it being billed as a "sound investment" opportunity or words along that line. These models are made from latex and they will break down eventually, indeed many of them already have and I know of at least 5 no longer with us for this reason. The one for sale already has discolouration and those tell tale crease lines along the middle of the body and the tail looks loose too. The other area that seems to suffer is the ears. I realise people want to acquire these but I personally feel that £520.00 is too much to pay for a model that may only have a limited shelf life.:sigh

Godolphin

05-25-2009, 03:23 PM

Liz Bouras still has all her Rydals that she's amassed over the years---I think they are still pictured on her Amarna website:

http://www.psychotica.net/evb/amarna/rydals.html

Yes, she bought the Arabs from Liz Bentley (now Crossley) who sold them to buy her real Arab, a filly called 'Saucy Miss.' 'Night Vigrant' was the first black model ordered if I remember rightly so we experimented to get the colour right on a mare first, I still have her 'Jenah Al Tayr' ("Wings of a bird") and her foal 'Nejmet Es Sabh' ("Star of the Morning"). 'Nejmet' is shown on the Model Horse Gallery website but I can't remember if Jenah is. If I get time I'll scan some photos in of her to compare colours.

Godolphin

05-25-2009, 04:54 PM

Well I've scratched around in my boxes of photos but can only find really old pics of the Rydals and they are not in very good condition either. Have scanned a load in and run them through Photoshop but they're still pretty rubbish I'm afraid but then they were taken over 30 years ago on instamatics and a clunky Russian SLR!

Arab stallions 4 1/2" size (all models mine unless otherwise stated)
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3557/3563679703_84bf7aa3da_m.jpg
Bahadi
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3565/3563680053_3b50dc1bc4_m.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3410/3563680419_2d9854fb75_m.jpg
Coronado (Pamela made the saddlery too)
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3650/3563680535_c03286f8e1_o.jpg http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2474/3564498272_813d3cfc0c_m.jpg
Ferzay and headshot of the three together.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3353/3563681143_8fc5aa67a8_m.jpg
Mayerling owned by Marilyn Sweet, he was one of the early causalities and was from a batch of small Arabs that hadn't cured properly.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2442/3563681407_b660bf1fb8_m.jpg
Gazali, the re-modelled small Arab stallion, only one made, have a body shot somewhere but can't find it!
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2447/3563681497_930c09e94a_o.jpg
Troika Belle and Mashanyke, the small Arab mare and foal to go with the re-modelled Arab stallion, only one of each made (N.B, Troika's mane used to be like Gazali's but I stupidly cut it years ago and didn't make a very good job of it!)
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3624/3564501190_b89b22b03b_m.jpg
Natchure Lee, Dartmoor pony gelding, saddlery made by Pamela.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3303/3563681673_c4965ba451.jpg
Three large Arab stallions, left to right, Night Vigrant owned by Liz Bentley, Achernar (mine) and El Caid, also owned by Liz.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2478/3563681899_81acc55c17.jpg
Another shot of the three, can't remember who bought El Caid, does anyone else know?
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2430/3564500154_82a0f5f8da.jpg
Jenah Al Tayr and Nejmet Es Subh, large Arab mare and foal. Jenah was the first model to be painted black (although she is actually a very dark seal brown black in real life) and the only mare. She also has a wing brand painted on her flank which you can just see here.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3662/3563683079_71aa5f842d_m.jpg
Head shot of the two.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3394/3564500690_5fe59b10d9_m.jpg
Nejmet Es Subh
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3579/3563682357_b3b371c278_m.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3620/3563682001_bbd8acca47_o.jpg
Fadella, large Arab mare
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3589/3564500920_7099fca342_m.jpg
Joshua, large Welsh pony gelding.

Hope everyone enjoys these, will try and find my other photos if I can.

Godolphin

05-25-2009, 05:11 PM

The Rydal is still on Ebay, finishes in about four and a half hours and is up to the amazing price of £520 which is:

520.00 GBP = 827.226 USD AMAZING! So now we know - anyone still with their Rydals in the UK get them insured quick!

Hope all is getting sorted after the fire, and I would love another Rydal one day, but not at that sort of price!

Jane

Well prepare to be amazed!!:zow The final price was £730.00 or $1,163.16 at todays exchange rate!!:shocked And if thats what the small ones fetch then what about the larger size!?:thud

Really don't know what to say and had better think about some insurance for my little lot! And to think I had to save for weeks to buy my first one, Marrakech for the princely sum of £5.5.0 (Five Pounds and Five shillings and I'm sorry I can't convert this!)

Keren

05-26-2009, 05:05 AM

But getting back to the Rydal for sale on Ebay, I have to admit I'm not happy about it being billed as a "sound investment" opportunity or words along that line. These models are made from latex and they will break down eventually, indeed many of them already have and I know of at least 5 no longer with us for this reason.

I used to think that, but then - how many things ARE a sound investment these days? I doubt the buyer would get more than they have paid for the boy on ebay if they wanted to sell, but IF looked after properly and IF they cured properly in the first place, the Rydals do hold up surprisingly well (as your photos show!).

You could say that a HR or a Royal Worcester would be a better investment, but at least a Rydal will survive a shelf fall, which ceramics won't do! And even if there is any damage (ears, normally) a restored Rydal still holds its value. They also have a more durable finish than an OF Breyer or Stone, and some of those fetch pretty whacky prices...and we know Breyers can shrink, pull apart at the joint, etc.

All in all, I don't think Rydals compare too badly - and they are both beautiful AND unique, which is more than can be said of many collectables!

Keren

Godolphin

05-26-2009, 07:23 AM

I used to think that, but then - how many things ARE a sound investment these days? I doubt the buyer would get more than they have paid for the boy on ebay if they wanted to sell, but IF looked after properly and IF they cured properly in the first place, the Rydals do hold up surprisingly well (as your photos show!).

You could say that a HR or a Royal Worcester would be a better investment, but at least a Rydal will survive a shelf fall, which ceramics won't do! And even if there is any damage (ears, normally) a restored Rydal still holds its value. They also have a more durable finish than an OF Breyer or Stone, and some of those fetch pretty whacky prices...and we know Breyers can shrink, pull apart at the joint, etc.

All in all, I don't think Rydals compare too badly - and they are both beautiful AND unique, which is more than can be said of many collectables!

Keren

Well we'll have to agree to disagree on this and I'm sorry to say that some of mine shown in the photographs above are no longer with me. Both Ferzay and Coronado were part of the same batch as Mayerling and went all gooey and collapsed. Bahadi, my favourite of the small greys is just 'hanging on' but his front legs have started to go and his tail is droopy, not unlike the one just sold on Ebay. Of the small stallions only Marrakech and Gazali are in good condition. The small Highland is now in a poor state with mammoth cracking in his neck. The large models are okay but Achernar has small hairline cracks and I'm not happy about his ears. These models get very brittle as they get older and a fall would probably do considerable damage now. The small grey Welsh stallion has discoloured as many of the greys do and before anyone asks, yes they have been kept in a cabinet in a dark room for over 30 years now but latex does deteriorate with age and people should realise this when they buy one, my views anyway.

Godolphin

05-26-2009, 07:44 AM

Keren

05-26-2009, 10:57 AM

Just to clarify, this is the exact wording used on Ebay for the Rydal just sold, it is the phrase "sound investment piece" that I'm personally not happy with:

"This is a very beautiful vintage model horse which will make a treasured addition to a collection as well as a sound investment piece."

Well, that is dealer talk, which should always be taken with a pinch of salt...caveat emptor, and all that. Since I suspect the majority of those bidding will have been Julip collectors (when I've sold Rydals, those are the folk who have bid, rather than 'mainstream' hobbyists), they know what they are letting themselves in for. There are one or two out there with silly money to spend, so... :dunno

But even resins can have problems. The early Hampshire Hill I have has discoloured from the midline down, because his lower half was cast in a different resin which has reacted with the paint! And I have heard that some of the early DaBar horses - which didn't have wire reinforced legs - are now bending under the weight of the solid body.

Perhaps I have been extra lucky (or perhaps it's because I've never lived in a house with 'proper' central heating!!), but the only Rydals I have with any problems are the small Highland and Dartmoor, both of which are much the same condition-wise as they were when I got them from you about 20 years ago! All the others are fine - in fact, the Welsh, donks and Shetlands are all as flexible as when first made! The Arabs are more brittle, but it's possible to repair them with Milliput - and I have also heard of an epoxy putty which remains flexible when cured, so may use that in future!

Did you know that Chris Miller (Davitt) resurrected Stormbringer by putting his head on a Swaps body???! Do any of the heads of your boys still survive? If so, a body transplant may help them too, LOL!

Oh - re El Caid: I believe Liz still has him :)

Keren

Godolphin

05-26-2009, 12:28 PM

Perhaps I have been extra lucky (or perhaps it's because I've never lived in a house with 'proper' central heating!!), but the only Rydals I have with any problems are the small Highland and Dartmoor, both of which are much the same condition-wise as they were when I got them from you about 20 years ago! All the others are fine - in fact, the Welsh, donks and Shetlands are all as flexible as when first made! The Arabs are more brittle, but it's possible to repair them with Milliput - and I have also heard of an epoxy putty which remains flexible when cured, so may use that in future!

Did you know that Chris Miller (Davitt) resurrected Stormbringer by putting his head on a Swaps body???! Do any of the heads of your boys still survive? If so, a body transplant may help them too, LOL!

Oh - re El Caid: I believe Liz still has him :)

Keren

I don't think central heating or lack of it has much to do with it as you'll notice that most of the problems have been with the small models not the larger, I don't know of any of the larger ones collapsing in the same way but plenty of the small. I know for a fact that there was a problem with the latex not being cured properly and there were other factors too and it wasn't just me who experienced this. The large ones by and large are in much better condition and the big Donkey, Welsh and Shetland ponies I have are all good but the Arabs, which are older are a little brittle.

No I didn't know Chris had "resurrected" Stormbringer - did he disintegrate too? I think Jane would be interested to know as he was originally one of hers. The heads of mine no longer exist unfortunately as they were too far gone.:(

Touchstone

05-26-2009, 12:37 PM

Well, that is dealer talk, which should always be taken with a pinch of salt...caveat emptor, and all that. Since I suspect the majority of those bidding will have been Julip collectors (when I've sold Rydals, those are the folk who have bid, rather than 'mainstream' hobbyists), they know what they are letting themselves in for. There are one or two out there with silly money to spend, so... :dunno

But even resins can have problems. The early Hampshire Hill I have has discoloured from the midline down, because his lower half was cast in a different resin which has reacted with the paint! And I have heard that some of the early DaBar horses - which didn't have wire reinforced legs - are now bending under the weight of the solid body.

Perhaps I have been extra lucky (or perhaps it's because I've never lived in a house with 'proper' central heating!!), but the only Rydals I have with any problems are the small Highland and Dartmoor, both of which are much the same condition-wise as they were when I got them from you about 20 years ago! All the others are fine - in fact, the Welsh, donks and Shetlands are all as flexible as when first made! The Arabs are more brittle, but it's possible to repair them with Milliput - and I have also heard of an epoxy putty which remains flexible when cured, so may use that in future!

Did you know that Chris Miller (Davitt) resurrected Stormbringer by putting his head on a Swaps body???! Do any of the heads of your boys still survive? If so, a body transplant may help them too, LOL!

Oh - re El Caid: I believe Liz still has him :)

Keren

Oh my goodness me - my poor little Stormbringer (named after Beverley and John Martyn's folk album). Although I sold him and all my other Rydals at the end of 1980 I have not missed them before, but seeing the photos and talking about them here on Blab has made me realise what I lost with them - but then all my stallions were the small ones. It's not that the Ebay sale has shown up their value, all collectors know the emotional value of a model to them and the Rydals were so special and so so beautiful. Truly hopes and dreams Arabians, which I have found again with the PS Arabians.

Right - where's that scanner - will try to scan my old Rydal photos in later and post!

Jane

Touchstone

05-26-2009, 07:15 PM

Oh my goodness me - my poor little Stormbringer (named after Beverley and John Martyn's folk album). Although I sold him and all my other Rydals at the end of 1980 I have not missed them before, but seeing the photos and talking about them here on Blab has made me realise what I lost with them - but then all my stallions were the small ones. It's not that the Ebay sale has shown up their value, all collectors know the emotional value of a model to them and the Rydals were so special and so so beautiful. Truly hopes and dreams Arabians, which I have found again with the PS Arabians.

Right - where's that scanner - will try to scan my old Rydal photos in later and post!

Jane

These photos are pretty faded as taken many years ago but I hope Blabbers can see the pretty ponez that are the Rydals:

Stormbringer x 2 (RIP)

Touchstone (the original)

The Saracen Prince (the one I now most regret parting with!)

Now you can see why I am so addicted to the PS Arabians!

Jane

Keren

05-27-2009, 01:58 PM

I don't think central heating or lack of it has much to do with it

Going to disagree here, Caroline, in view of my experience with some Julips that came from the late Dawn Walsh. Dawn had had them out in an ordinary garden shed that got VERY hot in the summer, and when I found them, they were a sad, gooey lump (melted to the shelves!). As some of them were ones first owned by me, I couldn't bear to let them go in a skip, but took them home with some idea of giving them a 'decent burial'.

Cutting a long story short - they didn't get buried, but they DID spend 20 years in cold, dark places. When I rediscovered them by accident, I was astounded that they had restabilised themselves and were now rock-solid! Some of them had 'warped' while soft (probably before I got them), but the rest were still Julip-shaped, just not flexible any more. They do have some cracks, where the original surface had melted, but it is possible to use Milliput to restore them (lots of the Julip folk do - I have a Julip-collecting 'neighbour'!).

I *suspect* the discolouration on the greys may be more to do with an issue with the paint that PduB used than the rubber. The 2 I later repainted white using Rowney Cryla have not discoloured at all. Also, the bodies I had from you that had been painted grey with Cryla were also fine :)

I had been meaning to post pix of a large Shetland and a donkey, but annoyingly, they are on my other Mac!

Keren

Irene

05-27-2009, 03:32 PM

Keren? Didn't you have a photo or two of your Rydels in I "think" the Model Horse Gazette or The Hobby Horse News?

Sorry to say my memory isn't the best...:yuk

lilfillie

05-27-2009, 05:58 PM

The hairing on these models is just amazing!! So well done! I just saw this thread, very very interesting! :)

Godolphin

05-28-2009, 01:52 AM

Going to disagree here, Caroline, in view of my experience with some Julips that came from the late Dawn Walsh. Dawn had had them out in an ordinary garden shed that got VERY hot in the summer, and when I found them, they were a sad, gooey lump (melted to the shelves!). As some of them were ones first owned by me, I couldn't bear to let them go in a skip, but took them home with some idea of giving them a 'decent burial'.

Cutting a long story short - they didn't get buried, but they DID spend 20 years in cold, dark places. When I rediscovered them by accident, I was astounded that they had restabilised themselves and were now rock-solid! Some of them had 'warped' while soft (probably before I got them), but the rest were still Julip-shaped, just not flexible any more. They do have some cracks, where the original surface had melted, but it is possible to use Milliput to restore them (lots of the Julip folk do - I have a Julip-collecting 'neighbour'!).

I *suspect* the discolouration on the greys may be more to do with an issue with the paint that PduB used than the rubber. The 2 I later repainted white using Rowney Cryla have not discoloured at all. Also, the bodies I had from you that had been painted grey with Cryla were also fine :)

I had been meaning to post pix of a large Shetland and a donkey, but annoyingly, they are on my other Mac!

Keren

I would expect latex and rubber model horses kept in a shed that got very hot to get in this state, it is hardly surprising!! The models I'm talking about are those of a large batch of the small size of all breeds that weren't cured properly and there were quite a few of those. It also happened to the latex used to make the riding hats, hands and feet of the little riders. I still have mine and although the face and head is okay the hat, hands and feet have gone. As to the greys, it wasn't the paint used but the final coating put over it to seal it that probably caused the discolouration and I do know what was used.

I would add that I had first hand experience with these models, the making of them, stuffing, painting etc and really don't intend to say anymore on the subject.

Touchstone

05-28-2009, 01:26 PM

I may regret asking this, but does anyone know what happened to Touchstone as he was sold to Dawn Walsh in late 1980?

Will attach another photo of Touchstone - and also Jamshyd who is on the Rydal website already mentioned. Have also found photos of the lovely large chestnut Rydal Arabian Mare, Crystal Heart that I used to own - these photos were taken by Marilyn Sweet. Crystal Heart's colour and markings were based on the real Arabian Stallion Greatheart 9Irex x Garance 1951).

Have found a nice colour photo of Mayerling and Caroline had already posted some photos of him, so pretty. He was owned by Marilyn Sweet, who also owned the large bay Rydal Arabian Stallion Antares El Masri, whose photos are also here. Marilyn and I found him on a visit to a real Arabian Stud near Dover in the late 1970's and managed to buy him, but it was easier to keep him with one owner.

What hopes and dreams of Arabians. It is nice to have some imput from the Blabbers about these, and to other links about Rydals they have found, so thank you for those.

Jane

Keren

05-28-2009, 04:33 PM

Cath Dewick and I were the first people to go through Dawn's collection (quite a horror story - Kim & Aggie would have died at the state of things...I still get the creeps thinking of the 'woollies' that had THINGS living in them....) but I definitely didn't see Touchstone, or he would have been straight home with me. I do know though that Dawn's sons kept her other Rydal (Skowronek), so I suspect they would have hung on to Touchstone as well. Skowronek was not in Dawn's 'horse room', or the sheds/garage, so Touchstone was probably with him elsewhere in the house.

I hope that makes you feel a bit happier!

(Marian Rickerby might possibly know more - will try to remember to ask her...)

Keren

LesliKathman

05-28-2009, 08:20 PM

I would add that I had first hand experience with these models, the making of them, stuffing, painting etc and really don't intend to say anymore on the subject.

Stuffing?? They were stuffed? What were they stuffed with - or should I be afraid the ask?

This thread has been really interesting. I remember some of these pictures as appearing in some model horse magazine in the 1980s. Maybe that was the Gazette? I remember Keren used to write wonderful articles for the Gazette so maybe that's where I saw them.

And Keren, what is a "woolie"?

Lesli

BearsnBugs

05-28-2009, 09:10 PM

Thanks Ladies, for all the photos! I've always loved the look of these, since I saw them in I think it was JAH? Back in the 80's. They've always appealed!

Godolphin

05-29-2009, 01:55 AM

Stuffing?? They were stuffed? What were they stuffed with - or should I be afraid the ask?

Lesli

The models were hollow cast in 5 piece molds made of very hard dental plaster, this was so that they could be cured properly and thoroughly, I doubt if they would have done so if they had been solid. They had latex coated wires in the legs that were inserted into the mold before the latex was poured in. They were then stuffed with very small wood shavings with a layer of kapok just inside the neck, once the mane was inserted the neck was glued together. I still have the 'master' model of both the large Arab foal and large Welsh pony that were used to make the molds, also the large Arab foal mold itself.

High quality latex was used but like all things, it took awhile to learn how to use it properly and how it behaved. After a period of time for instance, it would leave a deposit over the inside of the molds which then had to be carefully scraped off. The paint was especially made just for latex so that it was flexible. The manes and tails were mohair that was dyed in batches and blended together through a large metal spiked comb on a block, this explains all the beautiful shades and variations in the manes and tails which really don't show up in any of these photographs, Achernar's is particularly lovely.

We did experiment a few years later with various types of pourable plastic that set on being "cooked" in the thoughts of producing a range of Arabs in a more durable medium but didn't go ahead with it.

Keren

05-29-2009, 04:31 AM

And Keren, what is a "woolie"?

Lesli

I just told Daithi what you had asked, and his response was "OHHHH! Tell her she doesn't need to know!!!"

Woollies are the secret shame of the British hobby, LOL!! Back in the 1970s/1980s, there was this tremendous 'anti-realism' segment in the British hobby, with people being actively anti-Rydal and later anti-Breyer/custom. By a sort of inverted snobbery it was deemed that anyone who had a realistic model was an 'elitist b*stard' and that to be a 'true model horse hobbyist' you could only own Julips and other HSOs. But because Julips were hideously expensive (more so, ironically than even the imported Breyers), people made their own models from felt (stuffed toys, not needle-felting) and wool wound round pipecleaners and cotton-wool. Hence, these were known as 'woollies' - a term that eventually got applied to all non-realistic models, no matter what material they were made of - and particularly evilly-disposed people would take great pride in placing them over realistic models (in those days, everything went head to head - not enough different types around for divisions as we have today).

It was a black chapter in our history and not one to be proud of, LOL!!!! :haha But now different divisions to allow like to compete with like, "woollies" now have their own division, so everyone can live side-by-side without friction :)

(BTW - Caroline, Jane and I were leading 'elitist b*stards' - in case you hadn't guessed!:twisted)

Keren

Godolphin

05-29-2009, 07:31 AM

I forgot to say earlier that the tails of Rydals had wire in too and this explains all the different tail positions you see, some high, some low, they could be set to the owners wish though now, some 40 years later it is best to leave them as they are.

I found an interesting article on casting latex on the Internet, it concerns Julip models and how they are made but the principal is the same as for the Rydals. As the article says, the moulds would break down after awhile and new ones had to be made. This is the link to the article:

http://wapedia.mobi/en/Julip_Horses_Ltd

The large Rydal range were definitely more 'leggy' than the smaller size and the latex shrank slightly in the curing process which made them look leggier still!

Godolphin

05-29-2009, 07:44 AM

(BTW - Caroline, Jane and I were leading 'elitist b*stards' - in case you hadn't guessed!:twisted)

Keren

I think we'd have to add Freda Warrington, Marilyn Sweet and Liz Bentley to the mix too, all owners of Rydals and gosh, didn't it grow tiresome being called an "elitist" because we expected a model to look like the real thing!:sigh

Jenn

05-29-2009, 12:06 PM

Godolphin

05-29-2009, 02:49 PM

WOW!!! Those bronzes are amazing!!! That camel is just mind boggling! I can't even imagine what went into his production! Thanks for sharing! That was a nice trip down memory lane and an inspiration!

Jenn
:rays

Thanks Jenn and I'm so pleased that you and others are enjoying taking this trip down memory lane with Keren, Jane and myself!:bananatux
I have a lot more photographs of Pamela's bronzes and some of her other work so will post them over the next few days as I think you would like to see them, in the meantime here are some more of the Rydals....

Small size (again, all models owned by me unless otherwise stated)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2437/3575940477_6b8cc1fb59.jpg
Blue Smoke, Welsh pony stallion, colour has badly faded in this photo, headcollar by Pamela.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2465/3575943349_12b62db712_m.jpg
Natchur Lee, Dartmoor pony gelding, saddlery by Pamela.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3582/3576746912_9782d3d0c6_m.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3040/3575941621_ba404a8b8d_m.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3404/3575941849_29250194d4_m.jpg
Ferzay (left) and Coronado (right) Arab Stallions, saddlery by Pamela.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3637/3575944569_3501534b10.jpg
Gazali (left) and Troika Belle (right) the re-modelled small Arab stallion and mare to go with him.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3308/3575944237_1a17ccdced_m.jpg http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2431/3575944441_a3a07f9e9f_m.jpg
Troika Belle and small Arab foal Mashanyke. These are the only examples of the re-modelled Arab stallion and the mare and foal made to go with him.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3381/3575942759_80edb49d51.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3370/3575942689_419f8c5d48.jpg
Pamela made a series of riders of both sexes to match the small range of Rydal models, the two photos above show Marrakech, Arab stallion with the girl rider owned by me, all the miniature saddlery was made by Pamela too. Unfortunately I do not have any photos of the little rider actually riding but can assure you that she had a very good "seat"!
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3395/3564501292_ae98937d5a_o.jpg
Colour photograph by Pamela of small ponies and riders, the bay on the extreme left is Timothy, a New Forest pony also owned by me.

Large size
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3327/3575940335_985d17a44e.jpg
Achernar, Arab stallion, head portrait
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3392/3576747212_154e37e15f.jpg
Joshua, Welsh pony gelding, saddlery made by Pamela and another badly faded photo.

More to follow......:rays

Godolphin

05-29-2009, 03:09 PM

Here are some more of the large Rydal range owned by Freda Warrington, Marilyn Sweet and Liz Bentley (now Crossley) respectively. First Freda's models and all photos are by her.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2426/3575942519_cc75db8e98_m.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3628/3575941223_c693ce1316_m.jpg
Arab Stallions - Malik El Nassim (left) and Glendovey Sprite (right)
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3327/3576749946_d446cf7895_m.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3575/3576745860_32e0d78ace_m.jpg
Arab mares - White Opal (left) and El Leila of Nightingale (right)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2484/3575943565_0287da135e_m.jpg http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2453/3575943193_becf2df304_m.jpg
Arab mares - Nightingale Bint Caid (left) and Nightingale Glen Tango (right)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2421/3576747992_39d087bc4e_m.jpg
Donkey -Meriadoc (the donkey came with a little straw hat covered in fruit and flowers, haven't got a photo of it unfortunately)

Marilyn's large Arab mare Dhanaba Rifala and foal Tirzah Bint Rifalah
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3300/3575940727_0da6fde327.jpg

Liz Bentley's Arab mares, the colour is not brilliant...
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3360/3575944039_340e24e288_m.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3388/3576746230_1076c42bd6_m.jpg
Arab mares - Tarquin Rose (left) and Jaleeda (right)
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3358/3576745514_18dab27ae1_m.jpg http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2455/3576747544_79e8e0302e.jpg
Arab mares - Callisto (left) and group photo of mine and Liz's mares, left to right, Jenah Al Tayr, Gold Dust, Callisto, Jaleeda, Tarquin Rose, Fadella.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3567/3576747034_94d24f5553.jpg
Liz's black Arab stallion Night Vigrant (right) and my black Arab mare Jenah Al Tayr (left)

Godolphin

05-29-2009, 03:27 PM

This historic photograph, taken by Marilyn Sweet's husband Peter, shows a group of Rydal models owned by Marilyn, Jane Bowell ("Touchstone") and myself, it was taken at my house 'Sleepy Hollow' in July 1977.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3065/3576748854_08081e4036.jpgThe models are, back row, left to right:
Large Arab mares - Crystal Heart (JB), Bint Sabeena (JB), Persian Firefly (JB), Dhanaba Rifala (MS) & foal Tirzah Bint Rifalah (MS), Achernar (Stallion, CJ), Fadella (CJ), Jenah Al Tayr (CJ) & foal Nejmet Es Subh (CJ) and Joshua, large Welsh pony gelding (CJ)

Middle row, left to right, models are standing side on in photo, all small range:
Blue Smoke, Welsh pony stallion (CJ), Natchur Lee, Dartmoor pony (CJ), Benjamin, skewbald Shetland pony (CJ), Golden Gorse, Exmoor pony (CJ), Timothy, New Forest pony (CJ)

Front row, left to right, all small Arabians:
Touchstone, white, just out of the photo! (JB), Stormbringer (JB), Mayerling (MS), The Saracen Prince (JB), Jamshyd (JB), Marrakech (CJ), Bahadi (CJ), Ferzay (CJ), Coronado (CJ), Gazali (CJ), Troika Belle (CJ) & her foal Mashanyke (CJ)

The two heads in the background are a plaster caste of the study of 'Skowronek' by Pamela but painted bay by me, the little bronze paperweight head is of an Arab stallion, again by Pamela.

Touchstone

05-31-2009, 01:24 AM

Caroline has kindly sent me some lovely photos of the Rydal Arabians I used to own so ENJOY. Here are the two large Rydal Arabian mares Crystal Heart and Persian Firefly.

Also a photo of Touchstone, who I understand is still owned by the late Dawn Walsh's family.

More to come!

Jane

Godolphin

05-31-2009, 10:51 AM

I took some photographs today which I hope will help to illustrate the size of the small and large Rydal range, first off, a Breyer Classic Arab stallion with Marrakech, small Rydal Arab stallion.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2476/3581227627_6a7d53b45a.jpg
The Peter Stone traditional classic or 'old mold' Arab stallion next to Achernar, the large Rydal Arab stallion.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2433/3582038972_3d85d6e364_m.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3664/3582038506_666930bb45_m.jpg
Achernar next to Joshua, the large Rydal Welsh pony gelding.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3588/3582037620_9447eac0a9_m.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3609/3582037288_756a549925_m.jpg
And Joshua showing the large size saddlery and the small next to him, all made by Pamela including the miniature reshmeh which was supplied with all the small Arab stallions.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3366/3582038056_0fc69f6841.jpg

anniemare

05-31-2009, 11:19 AM

I think we'd have to add Freda Warrington, Marilyn Sweet and Liz Bentley to the mix too, all owners of Rydals and gosh, didn't it grow tiresome being called an "elitist" because we expected a model to look like the real thing!:sigh

Heh. I would have made and worn a t-shirt at every show. But then again, I am fairly obnoxious.

Keren

05-31-2009, 01:35 PM

Heh. I would have made and worn a t-shirt at every show. But then again, I am fairly obnoxious.

Oh, this was in the days when it was much harder to get T-shirts made. Knowing me, do you honestly think I wouldn't if I could??? ;)

Keren

anniemare

05-31-2009, 05:33 PM

But I am crafty, and of course you would have :evilwoo You's mah sister from another mister :rays

Iron on fuzzy letters FTW!

anniemare

05-31-2009, 05:35 PM

BDW, these horses are gorgeous and I wish I had one, even with the apparent pitfalls of caring for one.

Shahbazin

05-31-2009, 07:48 PM

Keren

06-01-2009, 08:33 AM

This is a fascinating thread! I'd never heard of Rydal models before, & have really enjoyed seeing them - it looks like each one was painted as an individual, too, which is really neat. Very beautiful little horses :) I would have loved to have owned one of them back when I was 1st collecting :drool

Caroline obviously knows more about it, but as far as I know, no two were alike. Most people ordered them painted to their specifications - my first I just took 'pot luck' with, and got a gorgeous chestnut mare. My others were all ordered with descriptions.

They were sold to real horse owners too, and it was frequently the case that they were painted as portraits of the purchasers' real horses. I know one Arab breeder apparently ordered about 20 portraits!

The bodies that Caroline and I subsequently painted were definitely all different - I had someone ask for a 'replica' of another Rydal, and I refused point blank to do it.

Keren

Godolphin

06-01-2009, 10:30 AM

Caroline obviously knows more about it, but as far as I know, no two were alike. Most people ordered them painted to their specifications - my first I just took 'pot luck' with, and got a gorgeous chestnut mare. My others were all ordered with descriptions.

They were sold to real horse owners too, and it was frequently the case that they were painted as portraits of the purchasers' real horses. I know one Arab breeder apparently ordered about 20 portraits!

The bodies that Caroline and I subsequently painted were definitely all different - I had someone ask for a 'replica' of another Rydal, and I refused point blank to do it.

Keren

Yes, Keren is quite right, every model was individually painted and no two were alike. They could be ordered in whatever colour and markings you wished and for no extra charge. The largest 'bulk' order I remember was between Mr Peter Pond and Mr Best both Arabian horse breeders from Australia though the Best collection was the biggest. He had if I remember rightly, the pure bred stallion Aethon and purchased a number of horses whilst in the UK including Ringing Gold and Lyvia. He ordered a large number of Rydals in the exact colour and markings of his real horses including the mare Shuayla who I always remember because she had a slightly curved blaze which made her face look more dished, very pretty.

As to 'who' bought the models, I'd say it was at least half and maybe more went to real breeders as Pamela displayed and sold them at a number of horse shows including Royal Windsor and the Arab Horse Society 'National' Show where they were always popular. I think it would also be true to say that the majority of Pamela's bronzes are in the hands of breeders, many were commissions of real Arabians including El Shaklan for instance and of course many are in private collections too.

Godolphin

06-01-2009, 10:56 AM

I managed to find two photos of the small Rydal Exmoor and New Forest pony and though the quality isn't brilliant I thought I'd post them anyway so you can see what they were like, first the Exmoor....Golden Gorse
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3362/3585851190_309bbf7a7d_m.jpg
And Timothy, the New Forest pony...
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3311/3585044961_1b817d6d68_m.jpg
Perhaps what is not so well known is that Pamela was experimenting with a vinyl modelling material at the same time she was making the Rydals. This product was extremely difficult to use as it varied from batch to batch, and then had to be baked, painted and baked again, almost like china or pottery. It had a tendency, if you weren't careful, to crack if it spent too long in the oven or got too hot and "over cooked." Despite all the problems, Pamela produced some beautiful studies of Arabians and other horses in this medium including commissions for Welsh ponies and Thoroughbreds. As each model was painted by hand they took on a very lifelike expression and I used to love looking at them all.

One set of models that particularly interested me was a number of Arab stallions (3 maybe 4) which were all individually made with authentic Arab saddlery, the forerunner to the 'Horse with a Golden Saddle.' I have one of these stallions though he is sadly in need of a new coat of paint as my humble efforts some 30 odd years ago have not stood the time well. He is signed and dated 1970 on the base and here are some photographs of him, I called him 'El Aurens' after T.E. Lawrence, better known as "Lawrence of Arabia."
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2484/3585850172_c6b3a41f7b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3368/3585850736_a21412477b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3624/3585044071_df836d7f30.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3328/3585851032_58a74f4e7e.jpg
The other frustration with the vinyl material was that each model had to be made from scratch and the most time consuming of them all was the reproduction in three dimension of the Godolphin Arabian as he appears in the engraving by S. Mackrell after F.C. Turner. Two of these models were made and each was a completely new work, to me he is a true "Holy Grail" model if ever there was one!
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2483/3585073891_e5923000c9.jpg